New 496 class in Great lakes
 

Someone fill us in on that new class in the Great Lakes.
MD

Randy, I heard something about 496 being used in old A and B boats that have no place to run other than P class. Gonna be awful slow boats considering it took some HP to make them run before. Now with single or twin 425s. what can they do mid 60s?

If Im wrong, please correct me. Just something I heard in a conversation.

Formula is going to bring 2 boats out to Cincinnati with 496's. There will be 2 classes a single 496 class an a twin 496 class there are min. weight req. at the end of the race. The speeds they are expecting in the single 496 class is 66-70 mph. they explained since APBA has shortin the course and brought it closer to shore, to slow the speeds down. They also mention if they get 3 or more boats in either class that they would put up prize money the min. weight req. for the single 496 calss was 5500 lbs.If you e-mail Formula they a brake down of all the rules.

interesting...might even bring in more new blood to the sport. is merc gonna offer any incentives?

Minimum weight for a single 496 = 5500 pounds????? Hefty, hefty, hefty.

What are these two new classes going to be called?Is there full boat homologation rules like F1 and F2?

The classes will be:
VSS= single,
VST= twin.

At 5500lb minimum I am guessing that stands for
VSS (Very Slow Single)
VST (Very Slow Twin)
:D ;)

5500 is way too heavy. i know safety is a consideration, but watching boats go 70 mph is like watching cars on the freeway. especially if it's a flat water course.

i like the idea of a 496 class (baby factory class). it may help to bring more people to the sport.

I agree with Scott B and Dredgeking. at those speeds, It wont be exciting to watch and it certainly wont be exciting to race.

Throw a 496 in a 24 Pantera or Superboat and now we are talkin

thats a great idea.. max 24- 26 foot single class..w/496 or 32 foot max w/ twins

My original thought was to run the 496 in a factory 1 and 2 configuration. Keep the same specs on the hull but only allow the 496 with a XR drive.

I also think 5500 lbs is crazy. stick to factory rules on weights they seem to be right on.
MD

5500 lbs. is to heavy.
Another class or two is absurd. Isn't the whole idea behind the "P" classes is to give people a chance to run, regardless of their engine and hull configuration choice?

Well, the only mitigating aspect of 5500 lbs is that it would be a true off-the-showroom class: Fridge, daquiry-mixer, potti and the proverbial kitchensink.

I agree with MD: Factory rules (maybe a bit less stringent) and a 496. Somewhere in the mid 70s. Price likewise.

I dont think anyone builds a 25' at 5500 lbs out of the showroom. You would still have to add weight to get there even if you had the refrig. still in it.
MD

i don't mind the motor or the speeds but the wieght will killyou. you go into a corner full throttle and get out of shape at the least bit with that much weight your gonna spin or roll.

Treadwell

otherwise good idea and a lot cheaper.

Dont forget the GPS boxes set at 59.9. Now we can have VSS1,VSS2 and P5 looking like a bunch of wimps playing ring around the rosey. MEL P5 16

What were the speeds when APBA was running E Class 2 years ago, were they running a 502. Formula also mention running the sportmaster drive. If anybody who was in Eastlake that still has a copy of the program I forget what the wieght was for twins.I left my copy in Marks truck. Eric I'm sure you can call someone at Formula for a copy.

The old "E" class was a 502, 415 horsepower engine. Speeds were in 69-72 mph. If this were to become a "National Class", it certainly has the "affordability" factor in its favor. It would also be ideally suited for anything 24'-26'. With some clubs allowing 30' twin engine boats in P5, this would be a true "entry level" class, and could easily be run with P5 and P4. I like this idea!

I beleve the speeds were in the low 70's in the old E class.


Why dont the people who make these rules and classes EVER,EVER,EVER ask the teams who race what they want?:mad: :confused:
Mad Dog

Randy,
From what I got from the meeting was they wanted to slow the boats down by a good 12-14 MPH for safety. The big thing was there were no length req. If there planning to slow them down to 65-69 mph your going to have to be at 5500 lbs to get the speeds down or a 24 boat with the 496 will be at 73-74 my 29 fountain with a 496 runs 74 at 4600lbs. if you bring the speed up to 72-75 your only 3-6 mph from F1.
If you want an entry class for beginners don't you want them 10mph slower then F1. especially when were comming out of our seats already, do you want to put an entry class team at 73-75 with no experiance. And than put them in 4-6 foot seas. There's 10mph between F1 and F2 and they have boats that are 4000lbs more than F1. Just a thought.

What this sounds like is manufacturer trying to increase sales, the topic is always brought up about the amout of classes, thier are too many and the excess was trimed by removing the O/B class and the super vee class was altered. factory 1 an 2 boats should run stock power, but this should have been done at the begining of the year. there needs to be more representation by the drivers to the santioning bodies, a players union so to speak! and a annual meeting held between Santioning body, manufactures, and racers union. topics for the meeting include rules revision, equipment revisions, and potental race sites. IMHO this is the next step to put everyone one the same page, the north east needs to be on the race schedule, Period! they have a tremendous following as exhibited by this board, Re structuring classes to meet one persons agenda does not qualifiy for this it should be voted by and if the vote fails will not be readdressed til the following year's meeting. I also believe that if you slow the boats too much, on even a relative small course there is too much time in between boats passing, which will not be spectator friendly. just my .02 cent worth

twin engine is 8500lbs.

Treadwell

Doesn't anyone remember the class that was proposed by APBA that was Baja 25' Outlaws using the 496 engine; I believe it was proposed in 2000 or 2001 and I think 1 boat came out for the Nationals or Worlds. Never heard anymore about it. If there is going to be a revival of this idea let them run in P5 or P4. No new class. Too much like E class.

:D :D :D :D LMFAO !!! Wardey

Is there a reason these boats couldn't run in P5 or P4? I really don't understand.

Good point Cuda! They don't need 2 new classes for an experiment
MD

I wasn't trying to be a smart ass either, I didn't know if there was something in the P classes that would prevent them from running in it. As I understand it, the P classes are basically "run what ya brung" at different top speeds. Is that correct?

Cuda,the reason they cant run in P5 is that P5 is no more then a sprint to the frst turn and after that its follow the leader. When the start boat gives you the green in P5 your at 62 to 65 mph and you have about 4 to 5 mph to try and beat the boats on your left to the first turn,impossibl.In marathon we had H. Priority on the inside with Awsome then Joker and Vixen on the out side heading fo the first turn,with them darn chicken boats behind us.On the turn every one was at about 69 and half so pulled to inside and played follow the leader for rest of the cruise. Now if you were trying to get some interest in a new boat would you want to put it in a class were it cant race?? I would sure be glad to take Miklos or Mike A along for 1 race and maybe they could show me how to beat the inside boat,or pass another boat after the first turn.Now I think this is why they want 2 new classes, witch would be about as stupid as what they have done to P5. Mel P5 16

Well, then instead of creating new pansie-classes with flashy names, maybe they should ask OPA how their new bracket rules are working out.

At OPA, if you are in the 70mph max speed bracket, you are only allowed an average lap speed of 10 mph lower, i.e. 60mph.

I've heard no complaints about it in Pt. Pleasant, and it was an interesting race.

Peconic,I dont know how opa runs thier rules,but can tell you there is a big difference in speeds being run if your in 4 to 6ft seas like they had there or i to 3ft like marathon.Now I understand that Bruce in Auwsome thougt the GPS boxes were the greatest thing since sliced bread.Why would it be so great when all he could do was follow H priority for 6 laps and not be able to try and pass for fear of a DG.I dont know what the answer is,but GPS and 69.9 sure isnt it.Next week we race with SBI again,not that i am a fan of thiers but they owe us a race and it will be fun to do a all out race again.By the way SBI is 70mph lap speed witch is 20 mph over OPA in P5,now that makes it interesting. MEL P5 16

Mel let them run in a class they cant break out of! P4 or P3
MD

Mel,

See you in Marathon.I asome you have the boat all back together and running like a champ again?

Frank

MD,I agree with you on P4 an P3,and let them run.I have a 1980 30ft Formula with twin 502 500 carb engs in it and trs drives that we use for polker runs.Now it weighs in at 7500lb and will run 70 on gps all trimd out,not bad for a old hull.But i can tell you one thing,I sure wouldnt want to try and bend it around a pin at 70 because if it hit a boat wake i would bet on it rolling,and its a 1000lb lighter then thier taulking about.Franky,I hope John has some boats in Marathon so we all get someone to race against and have some fun. MEL P5 16

Franky,have everything ready to go except waiting for a prop from Julie.Took two blades off in Marathon,that will teach me not to bargain hunt when it comes to prop work.I hope Pittman is there,I see he had a 69 lap speed in Ft. Myers and will be a lot of fun to race against.Put one of them XZ uppers on and lost 2 mph,but they tell me its a lot better unite.See You in Marathon. MEL SBI P5 38