540 in the werx!
 

Well some of you new I had bought a new to me engine (HP500 efi with Dart pro 1 335's and Whipple)and I was excited about installing it. I took my time, worthy rigging etc but the first run on Sunday ended early about 8 miles out with a sudden horrific SB noise.

Yanked it Monday PM (Thanks to Macon motorsports who let me use their shop off the clock) and pulled the pan to find the crank broken between #2 rod and #2 main.

Tuesday night I stripped the engine to longblock form- intending to hand it over to a competent shop and get it back as a long block. I looked at several great shops, but in the end decided to keep it at Macon, my confidence had grown as we talked shop and the timing of the project kept looking better. They do a lot of circle track marine and drag engines- my biggest fear was that shops would be too backed up right now.

Well, stripping the engine went faster than I thought- so I kept going and stripped the engine down completely. There had been detonation issues and 5 pistons were really not happy. I took lots of pics- the previous owner and I have been talking and I'm sure we'll work something out between us that makes sense. Luckily the block and Rods were looking good. BTW- used a new Dewalt 18V cordless impact to remove and strip the engine- holy chit- that thing is awesome. I finally killed the first battery trying to run the harmonic balancer puller- fresh battery zipped it right off.

After that I've been searching old threads till 2am and talking with lots of friends/board members etc we've got a plan and I should have a fresh engine dropping in by end of next week. OSO is wotrth every penny of the membership- even with the few eggheads who come around :rolleyes:

The heads only have about 20 hrs on them and look great- will check them anyway. I was already buying crank and pistons, the shop offered to take my h beam rods in trade for some new longer Lunati 1000hp rated I beam rods for a fair upcharge so I'll have a short deck 540 with little added expense.

I'm going to add an ATI dampener for good measure and one of the KPM sea pumps with an extra port to feed the IC. The new eagle crank will be checked out and dialed in (the only real beef I could find is they sometimes need tweaking) and some JE pistons with a .360 thick land will be used to get us near original compression (Dustin recommended). Going to use Felpro multi layer gaskets (rather than wait for Cometic to make some). Sb will be blueprinted etc

Rather than speed up the Whipple to attempt get the most from the 540, I'm going to run it the same speed and trade lower boost for more air from the increased cubes. running the same cam from the HP500 rather than try to chase the extra horses a better grind might offer.

Will use the existing dyno'd mapping as a baseline and take lots of plug readings, if need be, will get the ecu remapped.

The old setup had been dynoed at 790 at 5700ish. Truthfully, me and the Bravo XR will be happy at 750, but if it falls in near 800 or so that's ok. Doubt I'll dyno it cause I'd rather not spend the time and money just so I have a sheet with numbers on it- I'll let the smile and GPS do the talking:)

I boat in fresh water at 1120 feet- I'm betting 80+ any day and 85+ when the planets are in alignment. Running an Imco lower, 17.5x with ITS (7" setback) and labbed 28, P5x is at throttle up waiting baseline runs with the 28 to see how we want to tweak it. Full pleasure boat with sunken footwells and sink/cooler well.

Re: 540 in the werx!
 

Why was it detonating? Fuel issues, injector, fuel pump, ECU program? So you are going to put all the 'old stuff' back on a new 540 block and not dyno it and check it for detonation. What ever caused the detonation before will still be there after the rebuild. I would spend the money and have Mark at Precision dyno it and set it up correctly. Nothing worse than having to do a rebuild job than to have to do it a second time. Keep us posted.

Re: 540 in the werx!
 

actually got Mark's number from Rob earlier today:)

But I'm still learning (always will be)

Set timing correctly, know your fuel pressure and water flow/ temp and read plugs. What exactly do you gain by doing that on a dyno? Teach me :D. I'll be running less boost, better pistons, maybe more appropriate ring gaps (not sure how much the builders change the gaps for a blower motor).

Re: 540 in the werx!
 

If you have problems on the dyno, its easier to fix and dial in than if it was in the boat.
If you want any second opinions contact Jeff Cropper of JC performance.
He's been doing assemblies at Zuls shop since 1988. I know he helps w/ advice for others on the board. Always worth a call for knowledge.

Re: 540 in the werx!
 

The dyno will give you lots of information you cannot get from the boat:
1) Much better tuning
2) Insure the motor is setup properly ie... detonation timing etc...
In my opinion I think it is silly to build a nice motor and skip a $500 day at the dyno that can head off probelms down the road that could end like the last one and give you the best tuning available which makes it user friendly power that will shift and idle as well as make the big number.


But what do I know, I have only had 10 motors built this year.

Re: 540 in the werx!
 

So who do you use?

Re: 540 in the werx!
 

A guy in Joplin that is really good, but pretty covered up. I will call and see when he could get it on the dyno. PM me your number and when it will be ready to go to the dyno. I will let you know, I am in Cabo till Friday so I will call you when I get back.

Re: 540 in the werx!
 

Is it Brad? just spoke with him, sounds like we can do it soon:)

Re: 540 in the werx!
 

The proper way to set up this motor is to run it on the dyno with an O2 Sensor and have a professional tuner dial in the A/F Ratios on the ECU. Even after this is accomplished, it should be run in the boat with an O2 Sensor and further dialed in.

If you can't get a guy there with the program, you will need to get the dyno sheets and the A/F Ratios at different RPMs and send them to a programmer. You'll probably have to do this several times to get is close.

It is no easy or fast task, but it can mean the difference between a reasonable rebuild time and unfortunately what occured to you previously.

Mark can get it close but not perfect. Not taking anything away from him, he did mine initially and got it closer than anyone, but not perfect.

Re: 540 in the werx!
 

Isn't mark close to 20 hrs from you? I spoke with him and recognize his skills abilities- but between the 10 hrs and his backlog his skills are not readily available.

Thing is that the previous owner had done this with the previous set up, 02 sensor in etc, custom mapping- but had detonation and or sticking ring issues that I want to be sure to avoid. The existing program should be close, then I can take readings and ship the ecu to Mark or Dustin for tweaking in different ranges.

Brad has one of the better reputations around here and I will likely use his services, though he can't reprogram. He does use an egt sensor for each sesor so we can tune for the leanest cylinder. Ron in Tulsa is highly regarded but his dyno/abilities are not doing EFI right now.

Re: 540 in the werx!
 

I think you will like him. You could upgrade EFI and he could program it; he just can't reprogram the Merc style EFI.

Re: 540 in the werx!
 

Today is Dyno day :evilb:

Brad ran break in last night and today we see where the A/F mapping is. Will likely have to send the ECU out for tweaking, looks like Dustin will do it, Mark is covered up.

For those who slapped me silly in this thread and elsewhere- thank you. The small delay and investment is worth it in peace of mind for quality time on the lake and resale should I ever face that day (used to lust for twins but not as much lately).

Re: 540 in the werx!
 

U are welcome. Best move you could make for such an investment. :drink:

Re: 540 in the werx!
 

Cattitude , have fun on the dyno , it's the best way to get her set up right . Let us all know how you make out , give us some dyno results . I had Jo rig my dash with boost and pyro gauges even though I have a carbed 540 now I will be ready for a whipple or maybe rtech , I can't wait to see what your new motor will do in the boat . Got to go mid to high 80's right ? When will you splash?

Re: 540 in the werx!
 

My exact thoughts. Dyno is not just for numbers

Re: 540 in the werx!
 

Dyno needed a little TLC not running til later tonight or tomorrow, bummer is I'll miss the fun, leaving soon for a race in columbus OH. Have a race in PHX next weekend so no splashing til the wk of then 15th

Re: 540 in the werx!
 

Cattitude , how are you making out with the new power ?

Re: 540 in the werx!
 

What are your egt and A/F ratios?

Re: 540 in the werx!
 

Mapping was so far off/lean we could not run much past idle. Sent ECU to AS&M, ECU should be back this AM, should be Dyno'd today- will advise:)

I've been a way the last two weekend sso did not miss any boating- plan to splash Sat.

Re: 540 in the werx!
 

I expect to see up to the minute results from Joplin. :D

Re: 540 in the werx!
 

Well, we ran enough to get a good impression but could not get close to full throttle- the fuel system could not keep up and pressure was falling off. we did see 680-720 ft/lbs early in the mid range (before boost) and carrying high, hp got up near 680 , but again, part throttle.

Speaking with Dino at Teague (it was late and he hustled to ship me some parts next day from CA) he told me the P/N's I had for the aeromotive pump, pre filter and regulator were relativley good stuff, but automotive, mismatched and inadequate for our project. (All of that came with the new to me engine) So I bought a complete sytem from him which he recommended- same as they use on their Teague 900 EFI, will run later today for the bigger numbers.

Looks like it'll cruise with a bigger wheel on it though:)

Par throttole A/f at 3000 is a bit lean and will have to be recalled, the rest looks good so far.

Good thing we went on the Dyno- thanks again guys- posterchild story for why you should dyno.

Re: 540 in the werx!
 

Thats typical for an engine builder, thats not primarily a marine builder. There is a big difference between the way an auto engine and marine engine should be built.
Thats why I went w/ JC Perf/Zul. I knew I would't run into any of those problems.

I'm glad things are coming together for you.
Your boats gonna rock. :cool:

Re: 540 in the werx!
 

Well, I got my baby home and will begin to slip it in tonight.

I just searched and read a bunch of Dyno threads trying to learn more about the shell game as I'll call it. Brad (Dyno guy- did a great job and is great to work with as we rolled with the punches. ) does not like to work with anything but actual readings with no correction factors. he showed me how easily he could correct/fudge and get much higher readings but explained they were only good in a bar and useless on the lake.

We ran with a bit over 100 degree air temp (room gets warm, no cold air feed) and 500 gallons of water which is/was warmer (150-160 deg) than the lake water which with my crossover and restricter rather than t-stat is 100-120 if I remember right, IC will be happier too in real life. we used dyno headers and full accy's, the headers are nothing fancy and I don't expect a big change there.

we had 662 hp at 5476rpm and 750 ft lbs at 3660rpm.

I'll have to see how she runs in the boat, get some plug readings and I'll probably buy an Innovation 02 sensor to further dial it in in the boat.

Thanks again to all who have been helping me a long thru this project.

Re: 540 in the werx!
 

keep us posted on your #'s once she's in the boat :cool:

Re: 540 in the werx!
 

Glad to hear you got things worked out on the dyno . Let us know how you make out in the water , that is the true test .

Wow !!! 750 ft lbs of torque !!! that's huge , baby that bravo getting on plane . My guess is she will turn a 28 4 blade well into the mid 80's .

Good luck and have fun !!! Morgan