Fueling issue: Need opinions/ideas where to start troubleshooting
 

Also posted in general Q and A, but I figured I'd throw it up here too:

Got to East Chicago marina yesterday, fired the boat up on the trailer, and then pulled the trailer out. Boat idled while I parked the truck.

About two minutes after I got aboard and ready to leave, the motors sputtered and then died. Tried to restart both motors numerous times, but they would crank and then sputter and die. Both motors failed to start and stay running again. Had the boat out for the first time last weekend and it seemed to run fine... Anyway:

I removed, inspected and reinstalled both fuel filters which appeared to be functioning normally.

Also removed and inspected hose going to the mechanical fuel pumps from the fuel filter at the pump. Noted that the inside of the hose appeared dry, and no fuel leaked out whatsoever when it was disconnected.

All of my sherlock holmes powers of deduction lead me to believe I have some obstruction in the tank or activated some kill switch that I don't know about when I was installing my stereo (?) by accident....

Opinions? Other things to check? Power is 2 Merc EFI 502's on fresh rebuilds.

I'm going to pick up one of those fake lake things weds so I can run this thing off the hose in my driveway and try to troubleshoot this.

Thanks in advance guys. I'm glad it happened on the ramp and not in the middle of the lake!!! :evilb:

Are you saying you ran the boat without water in the cooling system from the ramp to the parking space? I don't know if you have a problem with the fueling system or not, but I would be that you now have bits of water pump impeller strewn throughout the cooling system. The first thing to do is to check those, and then back flush all the bits and pieces out. I'm not sure how that would affect start up, but I would definitely look at the impellers.

Check the fuse on the fuel pump. I have had an exposed wire hit metal and short out the entire fuel pump. Pretty fkn scary when it happened while on plane........Good thing all 10 of my passengers were seated. Took forever to chase down the culprit. Had to wait until the wire stayed stuck onto the metal before we could trace it.

Nope, started it in the water sitting on the trailer.

Thanks for the response. It's got mechanical fuel pumps... Would they still have a fuse?

Are you sure you have fuel.
The gas prices are high enough, people are finding alot of ways and places to steal gas. A boat would be very easy if its not inside a building.

Ok, I misunderstood. I thought you had put the boat on the trailer and let it idle while you parked it! Nevermind!

If it is EFI, then it has a main electric fuel pump and then has a supplemental mechanical pump mounted on the raw water pump (depending on the year). Al of the Merc efi motors have an electric main pump. It is on the port side of the engine underneath the motor mount. I would definitely check the fuel pump wiring. If both motors did it at roughly the same time, then it will be somewhere before the wiring splits off to run the two pumps. Also, have you checked for spark just to be certain it is a fuel issue? Sputtering and dying does sound like a fuel issue, but it wouldn't hurt to verify spark at the coil.

VERY GOOD QUESTION! It seems there has been more than one thread lately about this happening in trucks, so why not boats.

Yeah, it definitely had gas. We topped it off on the way to the lake.

Will be checking for spark on thursday to make sure... It did seem like the motor had spark as it was running for 5 mins or so though. I'm also going to investigate that electric main pump. Thanks for all the help man.

Also, as far as your fuel pumps go, when you turn the key into the power on/run position, you should hear the fuel pump run for a second or two to pressurize the system. Listen for that when you first turn the key and before starting it. If you hear it, you know the pump has power and is pressurizing the rail. That doesn't mean it is putting out enough pressure to run it though.

Just a bit of advice - if your picking up a flusher (fake lake thingy) get one designed for a Bravo. It has the wire that goes through the drive - not a wrap around generic type. I've seen way to many incidents where someone puts the wrap around on and while in the boat it falls off eating the impeller all to hell and now you have another problem.

In regards to your running issue - If you have the VST type fuel system (I suspect you do) you may or may not hear the pump cycle - they are much quieter than the later cool fuel system. You can stick you hand on the pump on the VST tank and feel it cycle. If no cycle - you have no power feed to the ECM - fuse, relay, bad connection, etc...

And you mentioned motors - both of them died at the same time? If so - you have something other than an engine EFI issue. Stereo? Low voltage??? Are the batt switches in the "BOTH" position? If both died realtively at the same time - it's something else ruining your day - my guess.......

Baddogz,

If both engines died at the same time.....
I would take a closer look at the tank and the fuel quality.

A stupid question, did the boat sittin outside during the winter??

//Mange

I was able to hear the pumps cycle, and the batts had enough juice to crank on and off for about 20 minutes as we were troubleshooting... Never felt like it had a weak charge at any time.

As far as both of them dying at the same time, it wasn't exact... The port died first, and then about 20 seconds later the stbd crapped out.

Thanks for the input.

The boat was stored in a climate controlled warehouse before I picked it up. It has been in my driveway for the last few weeks since I bought it.

On the way to the lake yesterday, put about 40 gallons in the tank, as it was already about half full.... Had no problems with gas or anything last weekend when we had it out and I filled at the same station.

On a normal setup the pick up tubes would be different lengths - this would leave one engine w/ fuel while the other was dry. All depends on the rigger..... but the length difference would give you enough fuel for longer than what you stated....

Are you SURE?!

Those bastards sure are fast sometimes...:hitfan:

It was never out of my sight. ;)

In my experience it's usually something simple, not always but if it's sudden and both motors something simple happened. I agree it sounds like fuel ... when you checked the fuel filters, I assume you dumped them out and re-installed them. After you put them back on and ran the electric pumps did they fill back up again? but did the hose after the filters remain dry?

Since you had fuel in the filters, and did not in the hose after the filters I would concentrate on that area. Check to see if the filters filled again after being dumped out and if so is there any fuel leaving the filters? I would replace the filters regardless and check again. Also check to make sure there is no obstruction in the filter base ...... also if you can take a look in the tank by the pickups see what's going on in there.

I had to replace my sender this winter and was able to drain my tank completly through the sender access hole to make sure I was starting out with fresh fuel with my newly rebuilt engine.

Good luck ....I hope you find it quick!

The hose after the filters did remain dry behind the seperators... Would they both fail at the same time like that though?

I think I'm going to make a list of every suggestion made in both of my threads about the problem and go down the line from easiest stuff to check to toughest. LOL. :)

If they both sucked up a big slug of water or some other crap in the fuel out of the tank they could. When I dump out a fuel seperator filter I often will dump the fuel into a glass jar and let it sit overnight to see if any water seperates to let me know if I have water in the fuel, even when it is running ok.

I would definitely check the inside of the fuel tank for peace of mind, you should be able to see the pickups where they sit towards the bottom rear of the tank from the sender access. You will also see what junk has settled into the fuel tank bottom over the past 16 years.

Did the prior owner ever have the issue occur?

Nope, he said he'd never had that problem before... I'm going to pull the bench in the back up and check the pickups. New fuel filters are going in regardless as you'd expect.

We dumped the fuel from the seperator into a plastic jug and let it sit for an hour or so, and there was no water apparent to any of us.

Do you have only mech pumps or do you have electric feed pumps as well?

If only mech pumps they need to be primed to work - ie they need to be filled with gas and cant suck air.

Prime them and give it one more shot!

Did you check the kill switch wiring?

Removed and reinstalled the kill switch lanyards, to no avail... Is there another kill switch I should look for?

PS:

Hmmm... Was not able to do anything but pull the back seat out and check the fuel tank service port today before work.

There was a few inches of water above the tank... :eek: The electrical wiring that I could see (not sure exactly what it was) was covered in $hit and corroded badly.

I'm going to save the freaking out for later, until I find out exactly what the condition of everything down there is tomorrow after siphoning the water out.

Certainly not thrilled to see the water there though.

Must be new water since it's been stored inside for a rather long time huh?!

I guess so... Maybe the drain going to the bilge is plugged up?

Here's what it looks like:

http://usera.imagecave.com/baddogz28...2015_ORIG.jpeg

Going to siphon the water out now.

Check with Pepe and Jo at the factory .... waters not running off of the top of the tank into the bilge for some reason. You may be able to see a drain hole(s) plugged up on the stringers around the rear of the tank. The water looks old however ... hard to beleive it would stay on the tank like a swimming pool when running or coming up on plane with the boat tipped up or even over in a turn.

damn, is that whole section of the boat(bulkhead to bulkead) flooded w/ water???

That's a good question, one that I don't know how to answer.

I sincerely hope not.

I believe there is a tube that runs from the bow to the engine bulkhead. It has holes along the way for drainage in each compartment.
That tank takes up alot of room so it might not be that much in volume but no doubt a concern. I know the foam around the tank can get a little nasty over the years.
Obviously Jo is your best bet.
If the drain line is clogged and under the tank you might be able to open up a drain hole next to the orginial in the bilge , then gell over the fresh cut to seal it up.

If you call the factory @ 786 3317100 I can help you w/ any questions that you have.

Later,
pp.

Turns out the water over the tank must have been leaking into the tank...

Siphoned 6 GALLONS (!) out of the tank yesterday, flushed the lines and then she ran like a charm. Had it out all day on Lake Elizabeth in Twin Lakes, WI. Not a big lake, but fun nonetheless!

You guys should have seen the stares. It was like we were in a Lamborghini. :D


The lake was pretty empty and flat, saw 69 with 8 people in the boat. LOL.

Now the next project is getting a new gasket for the fuel tank sending unit and sealing her up good.

What would you guys recommend for cleaning the clogged drain? My old man suggested 10 to 1 ratio of water to draino.

Glad you got it fixed.

That must have felt good to hear those motors humming again! I would not put any chemicals into the hull/liner. Try to clean out the drains with water pressure or a snake by hand or something like a flexible grabber to prevent any damage.

aggree.
ask Joe where to start

I'll shoot Jo a PM, haven't put anything down there yet.


Sounded great to hear em, that's for sure. :)

Backflush it with water and some detergent or some degreasing agent to start with.