You are obviously very misinformed as well as delusional.....phucktard.

+1...

This would be like me showing you pictures of all the hot chicks I've been with. If taken at face value you would think I was a stud. However....I can assure you that is not the case.

First of all....I haven't 'defended' anyone's actions. To the contrary I've chosen NOT to because it's none of my business. What I have done is call out the pretenders who peddle opinions based on here-say as fact. It's not fair to anyone. I like everything I've personally seen of Jo although he and I have never spoken. I've witnessed his actions and heard stories from his friends and customers that have left me with a great level of respect for the guy. I've always loved the boats...anyone who knows anything about performance boats would be an idiot not to.

But since you brought it up. I'd be curious to know how many of those are actually customer-related lawsuits? The same plaintiff names probably appear multiple times in the database...discount the redundant ones. And in how many of those cases did they have judgements against them?

I've been self employed for 20 years. Anyone can file a lawsuit. Let me run a very common scenario by you that actually happens quite often in a business where people are spending a lot of money on 'toys'...especially built-to-order ones. This isn't a scenario unique to boats...it happens with custom cars, motorcycles, etc. ALL the time. I've been involved in it...more than once....and I've never dealt with a product that has such a high value as a performance boat. You have to understand....many people think they have money...very few actually do when it comes time to pay the bill.

So...the scenario....customer wants a product. Customer puts down a deposit on the product. Builder orders the parts and sets up his shop schedule accordingly. Half way into the build, customer decides he doesn't want the product or wants to change his order. If it isn't possible to 'change' his order, since he hasn't taken 'delivery' of anything he thinks he should get his money back. Builder says...sorry...but I spent that money getting this build started. Oh by the way...the builder has also had to turn down or delay other jobs because he's working on this one. Customer's wife isn't happy when she finds out her husband spent a bunch of their money on a 'toy'. Customer gets an attorney. Attorney files lawsuit. The case rarely goes to trial and 9 times out of 10 the builder is forced to settle and lose his azz just to be done with it.

I'm not saying that's always the case...but I promise you it's happened. The fact that there are lawsuits doesn't necessarily mean you're dealing with a bad business. When a deal goes 'bad' it's usually the result of numerous factors. Either party rarely sets out to 'screw' the other but often times the end result can appear that way to an outsider.

Ajfisher.......right now we are planning on doing Boyne next July with some friends as long as everything works out so hopefully we can meet up. I will be there with my second Pantera and have loved them both.

And how is it that you're so 'informed' Canuck? Please do tell. Wait! Wait!....lemme guess....because you read it on the internet?

Some of us have been first hand witnesses to a build. I wouldn't dismiss the reasons for many members reactions or skepticism on this subject.

Yeah, you're right. Every reputable business gets involved in hundreds of litigations. So much so that a federal bankruptcy judge wouldn't let Pantera escape its debts just a few months ago. They saw right through the smoke and mirrors.

Go ahead...applaud Pantera. Give them 100% down. Talk to us about how you feel 12 months after that.

Your comparison of hot chicks to this situation shows your immaturity and lack of experience.

after, all- he's just a guy tryin' to sell his boat, right?

And the facts will be the same after another ten times ten times.

I don't know Scott, and I'm not saying he's a bad guy and would not want to see an innocent person hurt, but it looks like something hinky is going on here
and even the people who made the deal may have forgotten details since that day was done.

For sure! I'll be up Friday and we can have a few cold ones as long as you're not a buckeye fan! :lolhit::p

The OP managed to throw fuel on the fire. But, I have to admit this site was much more enjoyable when people like catastrophe were on SOS swinging on Sunkin's nutsack.

Wow... Thanks the support... But really hinky... WTF is that...I'm sorry that I hurt your buddies feelings and I promise to make it up to the both you...maybe

Sorry I am lol. That was a good game. Hopefully we have many more underrated season and sorry if it has to be at your expense.
Dale

Sorry that is undefeated seasons.

I'm trying to just sit back and be an observer at this point . However you made reference in a previous post to something I said to Jo on the phone and have not posted . SO !

I would have to say this is a straight up lie !!

Also your practicing the art of diversion . Starting a thread to draw attention away from the other , then when the smoke clears your going to delete ... WHY ?

Who are you ? What dog do you have in this race ?
Don't get defensive , all fair questions , just answer !

My Family and I are going on 38 years now in this very tough industry. Like my Father says : We have been up , down , and even sideways but we are still here fighting thru this brutal economy and trying to turn things around as a family. We have seen many of our competitors no longer around or merged with others in recent years. It is a very tough business to be in !

In referance to past court records do a few searches on other "legendary" giants in this industry that have been around as long as we have and you will see that we are not alone. Most disputes were from many years ago and were settled. There have been even a few on this site trying to link us to multiple businesses in Florida also useing "Pantera" name as well that we have no dealings with. Never said we are perfect but who is A1 in this industry ??

We could of easily filed a Chapter 7 back in July and turned over the keys and walked away when we filed for re-organization. After 4 weeks my family and I decided together to fight on and our attorney filed to dismiss the re-organization plan so we would try and hurt no one. We do not owe creditors $ at this time. We have an OEM account set with Mercury Marine for 37 years now and many other vendors. Alot of BS has been posted about that on this site. As a matter of fact Brad Halpin from Mercury Racing visited us yesterday.

We do need to complete Scott's boat which is 95 % completed and a few others in production. As a matter of fact one is being delivered to a customer that is a new member on this site this week.

The bottom line: We are sorry for the delays on some of these builds and we are really trying to turn things around. We know these new boats were sold by me for approximately 30 - 35 % % less than what we should be getting for them, and we know that needs to be corrected. If that would of happened none of this would be happening right now. At no time have we ever delivered a half ass product to any customer. We have never cut corners on our workmanship and try to deliver the best boat we know how. We have always been there to answer any customers questions whether they own a 1977 or a 2007.

There are a few members ( 5-7 ) on this site that have gone out of their way to try and close us down. Even gone as far as trying to hack into our Pantera website, send computer viruses, spread false rumors, etc. etc. We have never met or done business with any of you. Why not pick up the phone and call me if you got a problem, or better yet simply walk in thru our doors 8:00 AM - 5:00 PM Monday thru Friday and tell us face to face. Don't go and hide behind a computer. Here is my cell 786-366-8802 or 786-331-7100.

Scott and I are trying to sell his awesome new Pantera 28' SR now and the same 5-7 members continue to try post negative comments on his threads. Move on already and grow up. This is none of your problem. He is a great guy and customer.

Jo - Pantera Boats

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WARNING !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Are you for real? Here are some talking points you mentioned:

• Yes it is a tough business, but others make it fine without ripping people off (A1 = Cigarette, Skater, Formula, Outerlimits, Eliminator, DCB....just to name a few).
  
• Golly....which "Pantera" boat companies (with your family names attached on court documents and judgments) should we ignore? Please list. The ones that are against your company....when will they be paid? LOL
  
• When is Scott's fully paid boat going to go from 95% complete to 100% complete? If you can't do it....then when will he be refunded the amount of money estimated to complete it (~$10-12K). What other OSO member is taking delivery of a new boat this week.....don't you think they would be speaking up about it?
  
• Workmanship and cutting corners? Who knows except the person that gets the next one.....the "Pantera" name has no "credibility" with the general boaters on this site due to the years and years of lies to clients, failure to deliver and false promises.
  
• Why should someone pick up the phone can call, or stop by and "tell us face-to-face"? To tell you what face to face? This new tool here is called the Internet and is used to share and discuss good (or bad) information freely.
  
• Lastly......so it truly is you and he selling the boat. Scott may very well be a "great guy" (with super bad judgement), but remember this too......he's a victim of Pantera, much like Berk and a number of others. You are right though.......none of this our (OSO members) personal problem, but Pantera remains every boat buyers problem, and that is why folks are vocal about it.

What a waste of bandwidth..........and boat building skills.

I will not waste my time answering you. Keep hiding ( Phantom ) behind a computer all day causing ( CHAOS ). I am sure you are a perfect guy. That is all you are good for on this site.

Jo Nunez

Thanks for the confirmation Jo. You have no answers.

The OSO members are asking questions, and YOU are hiding. I'm not hiding.......I'm right here helping to ask the questions that never get answered!

Chaos? It's name of a boat. You okay with that? Have a good night.

My Family and I do not hide from anyone. But you are not a rational person to have a conversation with since day 1. That is why I will not waste my time with you.

We have been on this site as a member, past advertisier, for over 15 years and even help market it with race sponsorship from O.S.O. back in 2003. I have brought plenty paying members to it over the years.

Why not post your real information then ? I will just move on.

JO

I'm not rational? Okay. :) LOL

I'm asking the same questions as everyone on OSO (except for your successfully delivered clients). You won't answer their questions either....and folks wonder WTH would Scott leave his boat there if he doesn't have to..... especially to sell it (because you haven't finished the PAID IN FULL boat).

Most disputes are old and have been settled.
We do not owe creditors $ now.

????
Berks dispute is very current.
And you owe him as a creditor a whole boat.

We keep hearing 10-15k to finish the 28ft boat.
That's the value of the parts , correct ?

If as Jo has suggested you add 35% to the sale price of this single engine 28 ft boat are you getting close or at same price as the new
29 OL ?

[QUOTE=PhantomChaos;3823307What other OSO member is taking delivery of a new boat this week.....don't you think they would be speaking up about it?

he probably doesnt want 100 pages of bullsh!t talked about his new boat. i dont blame him for not stroking your guys hard-on's by starting a thread about his boat on here. no matter how nice the boat is, how it was paid for, even if it was built in a week.. the lack of blood in your head would make you think irrationally and come on here and bash a fellow boater. with all your money and free time hire a spy to go do recon work at pantera and report back to us with the builds going on there

Are you kidding me? Don't you think if Pantera was able to build a boat and actually deliver it right now......it would be huge news and an awesome sign that Pantera truly is trying to make a change? I bet Matt Trulio would even do an article on it!. There would be at least 5 threads just in this section started by you....and we would have had about 3 "sneak peek" threads in the last year. :) :D

Haopy Holidays!

its a shame you live so far away.... haPPy holidays

Let Scott sell is boat. There's no reason to beat him up over this Pantera mess.

Pantera will crash and burn. The court documents CLEARLY show that (contradicting Jo's comment) the Chapter 11 bankruptcy was dismissed with prejuidice, and could not be re-filed for another 12 months. It's my opinion that the original BK filing (which put an automatic stay on Berk's lawsuit, and the eviction lawsuit) was a delay tactic to buy the Pantera people some time. The court saw right through it....and because Pantera had no business plan to show the court (which it demanded) how they would restructure the company, the BK was dismissed. In fact, Pantera was held liable for court fees and costs. Basically, the judge told them to F off, and don't even think about pulling this crap again.

I remember when Fred's (Trick marine) daughter posted a glowing defense of her father...how he had sold so many boaters parts for far below the indusrty standard, and how grateful we should all be. Problem is, in the end, when the cash flow dried up, many people got stung. So Jo, just because you are providing this great 28' custom boat way below the markey value, you feel that the industry is better for it? Why is it the current and future customer's problem that your business plan was flawed? Shouldn't you know your costs of production? After all, you ARE the builder.

One last point. Since you and your family continue to paint yourselves with an Abe Lincoln type honesty, can you explain why, if this customer loyalty you claim to possess is for real, you haven't personally sold your homes and possesions, generating cash to deliver product which was paid for? Wouldn't that be the honorable thing to do? You took offense to the "go-cart" questions raised a while back. That one hobby most likely cost way more than the cost of finishing Scott's boat. Yes, that's a personal item. I don't thnk it's honorable to have taken money to build boats, used it as personal income, then defend your actions with excuses about the production costs being too high.

Do the right thing. Pay your judgements. Settle your lawsuits. Deliver the boats. Then come back here and tell us how great you are.

Yes it is. If I lived within an hour of Pantera I would stop by and see the newly finished boat being delivered this week so that I could announce some good news about Pantera!

It's the behavior.....

Bingo!!

True.....Pantera's behavior towards its clients in unbelievable. Not so sure how they have managed to snow everyone except they make each client feel they are "special" and part of the family, when in reality the client ends up being a victim, or part of the problem (much like a pyramid scheme).

I no i have said some crap about my boat purchase and it did suck , but i will say once I got my boat it was very bada$$, I still tell story's about going out in the rough water with jo scaring the crap out of me in 5 to 6 footer's @ 60 + mph :) , I hope in the the long run everything work's out with pantera they do build a strong boat , with that said good luck and keep them rolling of the line , by the way building some hull's and deck's mite just be the ticket these day's " quick flip "
mike