Is Pantera still around?
 

I saw their Facebook page but dont see anything but swag promotion.

I poked around and couldn't find their site.

If they are gone where did the molds end up?

Seems a great many people would like this legacy continued.

Thanks!

Uncle Dave

I don't think they are building any boats. I hate to speculate, but it looks like Jo's passing may have been the end. :( Sad on many levels.

Very much so.

I know Pantera had a great following and they had some tough times (very familiar with the tough times).

It would seem to me there is a lot of history of success and client goodwill if someone carried the line forward.

Bummer that no one has come forward to try to keep it going.

UD

That and there isn't much demand for these offshore boats anymore.

Tell me about it. Still trying to understand the center console craze.

UD

the 36 and 41 definitely have a future... the 28's are probably a victim of the times, if your going to spend 120k, you aren't going to do it on a new 28' boat. The 41 is one of the sexiest boats I've ever seen, too bad all of them have been ragged out. If someone continued the 36/41 and put together some CC deck molds they could have a business. Otherwise it will stay how it is.

Unfortunately the doors on production are shuddered and as you saw just selling merchandise.

https://www.facebook.com/Pantera-Boats-155502547824080/

So far as the CC craze. I'm all over that bandwagon. I actually have useful comfortable space for nine passengers, storage out the ass and beer cooler, a small efficient cuddy with head and stock egg beaters that will out last any IO engine with better MPG and still run 65 plus. Don't get me wrong at age 25-35 I would have kicked my own ass for even thinking about a CC but with age comes wisdom. lol

Anyone taking over the business? Is there anyone to chat with?

As to the CC, Im not a hater for fishing, but having been on them many times as a pleasure craft but the experience didn't match the marketing.
A deck boat would work better for me.
Everything has a phase -remember metal flake root beer brown? Im old enough to.
Eggbeaters - love em, they seem to fail with as much regularity as anything else, but have way fewer people to work on them.

That said a day on any boat is still more fun than a day in the office.


UD

I'm still at a loss in that a little over a decade the prices have doubled for products like that, is there a REAL reason? I saw some dude advertising a used Sunsation 28' here the other day for $135. You gotta be out of your mind to purchase something like that at that price.

What happened to Jo is a tragedy. I wish this boat line could continue but I could say that about a lot of boat lines.

I went to their shop once and talked to Pepe for a little while, very nice and let me look around at whatever. The stuff that was in production was being done very clean and appeared to be solid. It is a shame that any kind of business that produces stuff of that caliber is no longer around. Same for Powerplay. I don't know anything about the publicized deals that went south but it may just be a case of a company struggling to survive which often means taking very risky chances and when they don't work out someone unfortunately gets hurt. It doesn't mean the intent was bad or the competency wasn't there just some combination of a poor economy and business decisions that in hindsight would've probably been made differently. Some of these companies probably should've have closed up years before they did as they had solid reputations until the end. Kinda like a pro football player that played a season or two beyond his usefulness.

As for pricing it's crazy, I'm at a point in life that I can finally now afford that new boat that I've been thinking about for years, however when I went shopping I quickly realized that I can't afford it. You always had to have decent money to buy one of these things but it's really up there now. When I think about the technology in my truck compared to what's in these boats the truck is light years ahead but still affordable. However if GM only built 50 Sierra's a year I probably couldn't afford it.

Not sure you guys have priced out new boats but they are a fortune.
Not at all surprised to hear a guy is trying to get 135 for a 28 footer - he probably paid 150 or more.

The permits,city fees, random inspections from all sorts of interesting "authorities", manufacturing insurance, zoning problems, labor, workmens comp, engines and drivetrains, material cost have skyrocketed in the last 10 years.

UD

I was nearly a story like Joe myself - I had a kidney removed that was stage 3b with no symptoms in 2012 -I got lucky and found it before it burst and filled my body with cancer. It can happen to anyone.

The truck market right now is absolutely stupid and the used truck market is nuts. You routinely seeing 15 + year old trucks with over 150k miles listing for 18 grand...... Its like they are Apaches or something,,,,

I own a business and get it but sheesh, over double in a decade is brutal. I got our wonderful gov't up my ass too in construction. Not sure what I'll be doing once I'm back in the game but I have a bit of time before that happens. $135 for a used 28' is asinine no matter how you rationalize it and one reason this boating market is in quick decline.

The whole problem isn't that the boats are costing so much its the hardware everyone is wanting when they build a boat because of whats available . Show me a boat that was built in the last five years where the customer just wanted a 496 bravo and conservative trim tabs and I'll show you an affordable boat . But thats not the case is it ? Everyone wants the biggest , baddest , and fastest out there and Mercury standing there with their hand out selling engine packages from 50 to 300K per package .
I of all people get it but does anyone even know why a 1350 package cost north of 200K . I mean in the end its a block with heads pistons and turbos . What do you think the actual raw material cost is in parts ?
We've talked about it before . I can buy an insane set of headers for my chevy with an LS in it for $1000 but the headers in my boat are $10,000 . We feed the machine . You could go buy that 28-30 single for $75K out the door but its not gonna be the fastest or the baddest is it ?

I was looking at new F250s the other day and they're $50k, another asinine expense. In 2002 I was into it for $100k for a new Nordic and F250, now the same rig is $200. I have an '08 F250 with 120k on it and it ain't going anywhere. I've had it since new and have taken really good care of it. I'm taking it to the paint shop to have the bumpers repainted and a few areas touched up and I'll be good to go for another 100k. I clay bar it every spring, wax with Duragloss and pretty much fuss over it, people think it's new. With these prices I'm having onto it for the rest of my life.

I own a Excavation/Demolition co. we are and have been working cheaper for the last 8 years. makes it tough to keep upgrading.

Same here with a Lawn service , same price charged as 15 years ago and if you try to raise them $ 5 they will cancel and go to the next company " Freaking crazy "

I've been raising my rates in my construction business like crazy, still backed up with approvals and getting more calls than ever. Whatever...

I have heard that from the concrete guys also.

Yeah...no kidding, I'm trying to build a garage for ME for a change and MY COST is $18,000. Wow...still in shock.

I hear you about the trucks. I have a '08 Duramax with 108K miles. I love the new Chevys and want on bad. But 60K?!?! Aint happening! My '08 is in great shape and will be with me till it dies.

take a 572 and throw twin turbo on it and see where you end up . for a fraction of the price. the price for headers is outrageous. I have a set of cmi split tube headers on my boat they were there when I bought the boat thank god cause 3500 for headers I would never spend that . One of the previous owners welded the tails to the upper manifolds. they are now basically one piece uppers I hate it that way so I called cmi. what was I told we don't make that header anymore but we will make you replacements for 2500 each really I will live with it the way it is !! went to do the cockpit upholstery had 3500 in my budget went to a place around lanier and what was I told your budget needs to be 35000. never spoke to her again. got it done for 2200 else where. mind you this is a 24 ft 24x7 hull I can only imagine if I asked her to to the cabin too. which btw I did for about $600 myself. the boating industry in general all think everyone is made of money for instance not to pick on one company but it's one that I follow closely since I once worked for them. same manufacturer of my boat that I built when new and now rebuilt last winter. I read somewhere where sensation hasn't sold a sport boat in something like 2 years but are selling the cc's like crazy. well they use to have an excel file that you could price out there different boats well not a one came in under 100,000 from 28.8 up there 43 footer with all the goodies came in around $943000.00 sorry can't swing that !!! I feel the boat companies are pricing them selves out of the markets. I'm not going to buy a entry level boat at over $100,000 if I remember there 24 was something like 40,000 that they stopped making. so basically what I am saying is I will never spend more for a boat than I do for my house. I paid 5 grand cash for my boat sunk another 6 into it new rebuilt motor, new cabin, new cockpit, new wiring , new lights, new radio, updated by adding smarphone support in the boat with Bluetooth and usb chargers added led lights to cabin and cockpit new carpet thru out. so I have a total of about $11000 into the boat. runs guestimated 70mph haven't bought the gps speedo yet. the prices being asked for a new boat is just crazy.

This industry is going to shrink to a former shell of itself in 10 more years.

The cost to build legitimately is such that you can't build them cheaply anymore.
If you price them so you can stay in business no one can afford it.

My buddy Chris at Lavey told me the other day -"he'd give anything if he could build used boats."

UD

Same here, getting same or less money for work then we did 10 years ago. Worst part, can't get enough work because there are guys willing to work for less.

In general on the subject, it's a sign of the times. Either you have to build extremely expensive boats for a select few that generate serious profit per unit, or build a chit ton of lower margin smaller boats and offset margin with volume.

Yeah, i have like $40k cash to spend on a boat and can not find anything decent. Been looking since may and Had no idea it'd be this hard. Maybe closer to end of summer will get better. Pray for me.

Buy my 24

Me wants a 28 though. Regular seating. Stock single power. Thanks though.

Mine is for sale, it's a twin though

Which one is yours? Listed anywhere?

Still Blows me away every month when I open up my free Boating and the other Yachting Magazines to see how many high Dollar boat manufactures are showing up every month.

It's almost like they are in the money laundering business .Who the Hell is buying all these Half million dollar plus 3-4 engine Center consoles.

Not to mention 3/4 million dollar 36 foot sterndrive cruisers that are really 30 feet when you take off the swim platform and the bowsprit.

And now let's design every boat like it just had a high speed collision with a sea wall and put a bunch of ugly picture windows down the side of it to sell it to the wife.


God Boats are Fugly these days.

I dont know about the marine industry but we use epoxy for some of our products here at work....we buy the epoxy/resin in 55gal drums...prices have gone up like crazy...funny thing is in the beginning it was all due to the oil prices going up...now prices have gone down but regulations/permits/fee's/delivery.. etc have gone up and its still mucho expensive! We pay about $6500 for one drum of each (epoxy/resin)!!! And our customers are complaining our costs are too high and want a reduction or they go to china! :mad:

It's brutal, although we deal in mostly vinylester which is less expensive it's still brutal- those costs and associated permits with outgassing (AQMD in california) have skyrocketed.
Every single component has nearly double some more so since 08.

Stuff you used to not care so much about like tape - just the cases of tape - to tape out this graphic before gelcoat was almost a grand.
(Solid colors are looking better and better!)

Anything other than white gelcoat is a fortune (like high quality paint) and takes days if not weeks to get.

Engines, drives all up, Basically the whole supply chain subsystem in the industry is up.

Sucks, but until real volume comes back if it ever does prices will continue their upward spiral until only a few sellers remain and only the very very rich will be able to participate.




UD

Buy my boat and put stock seats in it. No difference in how the boat is built from the F1 to the Sport. Just little different dash and small cabin area. Anything can be changed to make it pleasure. Just dont want to be the one to turn the notorious F1 boat into a pleasure. But im ok if you do once im paid.

Everyone one i talk to on the lake say they never use the cabin. It fills up with water toys bags and towels. No one actually sleeps in the cabin unless its a emergency.

The boating market is 100% different in the last 5 years. Im 30 and grew up on Offshore boats. My uncle had Cigarette, and dad had a 85 Chris Craft 390 stinger. You would have never convinced them that twin OB CC is cool. But it was more about the Offshore style boats and going fast.

Now everyone wants to Party and Raft off. So you take the average boater, he will buy a cabin cruiser to pile all his drunk friends and girls on. Or if he wants to go faster and have party he will go with the CC.

Sunsation boats in MI have stopped all production on offshore boats. They only offer CC now. Dealer pricing for a 33ft with twin OB is 225K. Few stories about one dealer just ordered 12 of them!

A 28ft is perfect for me and my area of boating. I would buy a new 28 SR. But build it as a race layup and rigging.... mechanical gauges, heck throw a big carb engine in it to save money on and headake on all the new electronic issues that seem to pop up. Nice drive and small cover girl cabin and be done. I dont need a 50K pain job, 25k interior, 10k GPS, and so on.

It won't come back, it can't at those prices. The younger generation is broke and struggling, those of us anywhere in the greater ballpark of retirement won't drop that coin for a toy. We are solid middle class and purchasing our new Nordic for $64 (or whatever it was) was not a stretch, now double that and we're on the outside looking in.

I'm pissed, boating is in my blood, and I actually think it's in my DNA, the water puts a real zap on me when I'm anywhere near it...I'm obsessed. But this is out of control. Someone will someday come out with a new technique/material to make this affordable but I'll probably be dead by then. Until that time it'll have to be a used boat and we'll have to be committed to continuous upgrades and repairs which will get old after a while.

Signed: Very depressed.

Well said, sad but well said.

Speed on the Water just had an article about DCB having a new 28 foot cat. Starting price was $215,000. In 1998 I payed less then 1/2 that for my 280 Velocity. My current boat is a user VR 1 Velocity. I am retired now, can't see buying a new performance boat and I sure do not want a fishing (CC) boat. I'll keep the VR1 and send the motors back to Eddie Young when needed or need more speed.

I had to check on that and you are right. I just lost a lot of respect and admiration for Sunsation. :( http://www.sunsationboats.com/

Why??? For keeping the company alive, people employed, producing boats? Sunsation should be praised not dissed! If the market comes back, the molds are there and they can produce off shore boats.

Padraig

In the end they need to provide for themselves, their business, and their families. We all know the bottom has dropped out of the offshore performance market and is trending to more utilitarian and reliable platform as the boating demographic ages. I think they're running with the curve and others like *insert name here* are long gone.