Vyper vs. Avenger???
 

I'm looking to upgrade to either a 34 or 38. Have heard great things about both boats. I'm wondering if someone can give me some direct comparisons. I read one post where someone said the 38 doesn't really have any more room, and another where someone said the cockpit was significantly bigger.

Anyone have experience with both? Looking for:

1. Cabin and Cockpit room. Especially passenger room in cockpit.

2. usability of Head

3. speed with equal power

4. Rough water ride. Took my 257 out in 5ft rollers this weekend and got pounded. I want something that will flatten Lk Erie out a bit.

5. Anything else you can think of.

thanks

Avenger vs viper
 

I had a 99 Viper and now have a 2001 Avenger. There is far more coockpit and cabin romm in the Avenger over the Viper. The distance between the front of the bench and the back of the bolsters is about 12" to 18"' longer in the Avenger.
The cabin is also about 18" longer in the seating area and the berth is about 4"to 6" longer in the Avenger. Cabin height is also about 2" taller. The head has more room so when you sit on the stool and close the door it doesn't hit your knees.
The motors also have more room, there is another 4" or so between the front of the motors and the back of the bulkhead.


The 2001 Avenger hull didn't get applied to the Viper till sometime in 2002. That is the hull you want . Due to weight , assuming both boats have the new hull, the Viper will be faster if both boats have the same motors. However the ride on the 38 is far better. Less side to side sway . The Avenger received Powerboat Mag Offshore boat of the year with the 2000/ 2001 hull.
Both great boats but if you can afford it the Avenger is the smarter buy.

I see you are not to far from me, I have a vyper with 500 hp's let me know next time you are planning on going out and you can jump into mine and see the size of the vyper in the water, I had a 27 laser prior and wow what a difference in ride, we run to put-in-bay in 3 footers at nearly full throttle and its a great ride, we are planning on moving up to the avenger one day just because i always wanted one, you wont be dissapointed either way, just make sure you have the power you want, blue motors rule in these boats.

Normally, I recommend jumping to the largest boat you think you want to get into eventually.
UNLESS, you find the right boat that allows you to grow with your experience and logistics (truck, trailer, storage, etc); AT THE RIGHT PRICE.

If you decide the Vyper fits you, let me know. The 34 Vyper that the AT Factory took in on trade from Macklin is currently in NJ, and we NEED sell this boat.
http://www.offshoreonlyclassifieds.c...o16505-en.html

My contact info is here:
http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/s...d.php?t=164232

WE have a 2000 AVENGER that runs 74.1 GPS with 502 motors What is the speed advantage of the 2001 hull? We bought this boat last Oct. from 38POWERQUEST ( John ) from MC.
Dave Kline

Dave, I would estimate about 3 mabey 4 MPH diff with the new hull. Way to tell the difference is measure the distance from the bottom og the transom tie down bolt to the bottom of the hull if it is close to 1 inch you have at least a hull where they started to make the change. If it is clearlly over an inch ,more in the 2 plus zone you have the older step hull.

Look at the lower right hand corner of the attached picture. This is the new hull

avenger
 

I had a 1996 Vyper and bought a 2002 Avenger and to be honest with you the Avenger is so much more boat it is a big step up. The Avenger flies better in the waves, much flatter than the Vyper which always seemed tail heavy. And the room in the cabin is much better for overnights. There is nothing that I don't like about the new boat. It in my thoughts is the best boat out there for the price.

Thanks for all the good feedback. Looks like the Avenger is the obvious choice. I especially like the idea that it has extra passenger room in the cockpit. Friends and I do a lot of just "hanging out" on the boat, and it's the one downside I have to offshores in general vs. cruisers is cockpit room.

Also, If I do find a newer hull with HP500's, what will it top out at? Will it break 80?

It should hit 80 mph under ideal conditions with a light load. I recall the boat being tested in PowerBoat magazine and it hit just a hair under 80... might want to look it up, just to keep me honest.

The tie down ring is nearly as low as it can go on our boat by my pictures as the boat is not at the house to measure it. It appears it would be less than and not more than an inch anyway. I was told that Powerquest worked to get the hull and props dialed in on this boat. Thanks Mary.
Dave

We travel for overnight's with mostly crusiers and the extra space in the cabin is not a turn on for us. But crusing at 50 mph is !! It's the difference of being on a Goldwing or being on a Harley with no helmet.

The other thing is that I have gone 70 mph maybe 3 times in my boat. It is a rush, but the fuel you use is unbelivable. So a boat that gets good mileage at 50 is much more useable.

Sorry if I misunderstand, but are you saying the Avenger does, or does not get reasonble fuel usage at 50mph? Obviously "reasonable" is relative :)

I've got friends with 100mph+ boats and sometimes when they zip accross the lake at 80, it would be cool to be able to keep up at least a little, regardless of fuel usage. Heck what's $50 worth of fuel for a 10 minute run really mean when you're paying $600 a month (all year for 4 months of usage), $2400 for a slip, $1000 for winter storage, and $5000 for misc. maintanance???

Someone tell me again why I want to move up to a bigger boat?? :)

I like both boats...

I doubt you will see 80gps (I would guess 75) with 500's and running 10 minutes balls out is much more expensive then $50 these days :(

But screw it, let em eat!!!!

Viper Avenger
 

I Have Had Both, No Significent Diff Between The Viper Or Avenger If You Have The Same Motors

The fuel consumption on my avenger at 50 mph is what I would consider excellent. The fuel consumption at 70 or near my top end is terrible. My point was that I love to go fast too but everytime you go fast it seems not as fast because you get used to it. I'm not full of ****, it's just fact and with today's fuel prices I would rather use my boat at 50 miles an hour than 70 miles an hour. I must admit I'm 52 now and I have been there and done that. But I do know what other people are coming from.

And too performancemary, You said the 34 and 38 are comparible with the same power? I totally disagree with you.
The Avenger is a much better boat, simply because of it's length and weight. It handles the waters of Green Bay and lake Michigan much better than the 34. If you don't think so there was something wrong with your 38!

Bcarpman,
Go ahead and by a nice 38 Powerquest that is in good shape with the right props and enjoy the ride. It was a dream of my wife and mine and we did just that 4 years ago and we have had the time of our lives. Their is nothing better than a big block or big block's to get the excitement up.

I agree, we bought a PQ 270 Laser new in 1998 and it soon became our dream to own the AVENGER. After 7 years of driving all over the countryside looking at them we finally found the one at Great Lakes Marina in Muskegon MC in Oct. 2006. We too are having the time of our lives with our Avenger. After 30 hours no issues other than changing water pump impellars which is a whole lot easier than on the 27. I love the sound of the big blocks echoing off each other as we run across the water. We don't push her hard usually run in the 3200 to 4000 rpm range 44 to 62 mph and experience good fuel economy for a boat this size. With 28p lab props and 502s she runs an honest 74.1 GPS whenever we get the need for speed, which at 53 years old is a fast boat to me. The 38 wins over the 34 hands down, longer hull = smoother ride and the stepped hull carves out turns tight and true unlike some other stepped hulls out there. GET AN AVENGER you,ll love it except on those 90 plus degree days when you pull her out for the wipe down.
Dave Kline
SHAKEN NOT STIRRED USPSLL

Well we also went from a 270 laser with the 502 mag and it was an awesome boat for lake erie boating, once we moved up to the Vyper with 500 HP's what a difference, the ride and power is awesome, we see 78 GPS in a nice chop and it can take the rollers on lake erie with out taking a beating at all, the avenger does have a bit nicer ride in the real ruff stuff but overall not much difference between the two in ride on a regulat basis, allthough the Vyper is a bit faster i believe with equal power. Either way both boats are great and you wont be dissapointed at all with either one, just make sure you get it with the power you want. Gotta have the blue motors, just my opinion.

I was wrong
 

You are correct the Avenger is a far different ride than the Viper. The Avenger is better in the rough water , has less bow rise and rides flat when up. Not sure why I said that.
However with identical power the Viper will be faster.
If speed is what you want find an Avenger with the 575sci's
Stock you are in the mid 80'S and with only a pully change you can get over 90

34 vs. 38
 

Have spent time in the 34' and own a 2002 38'. Both ride well but I run my boat at LOTO and I pat myself on the back every boat ride that I went with the 38'.

Cabin is much larger, a little more headroom even. Cockpit is one of the most sizable I have seen, can have three to four behind the bolsters without stepping on the people's feet sitting on the bench. Have had 12 in the cockpit, although it is not very comfortable.

Head is easy to use, a lot of room.

I have 500EFI's with 130 hours, XR drives with IMCO shorties, and Hydromotive P5X 30" 5 blades that have been labbed. Boat with run 81-82 on fumes and 75 all day with 6 people and beer.

Rough water? Don't even get me started on LOTO, it takes all that it can give.

Lastly, I am debating putting mine up for sale so if interested, let me know.

Mine with 496HO's has a top end best speed on GPS of 81 on the ocean and will regularly hit 78-79 in any condition. Mine is 2002 with every single option that could add weight. HP500's should push to 83-85 mph and 525's would hit upper 80's.

Viper Speed
 

Never heard of a Viper in the upper 80s yet. Any out there?

We have a 38 Avenger in the lower Green Bay area with twin 650 H.P. custom motors that just touches 90mph. I would think a 34 Vyper would need at least 575's to get close too that speed?

Well I am doing my motor upgrade this winter to the 650 Hp range, 500 HP's with AFR 315's and new crane 731 cams with new MSD ignition and distributers, I am told we should see 625-650 Hp with the set-up, allready installed hydromotive nose cones on the drives. Hopefully see 85-87 MPH with the new set up as I am allready running 78-80 in current configuration. Would love to see a Vyper hit the 90 mph zone.