New CNC #6 Propellers!!!!!!!
 

We are really excited.....this is what we are machining today!

Julie

pricing? 5 blade

We have not extablished a pricing structure thus far, but rest assured they will be competitively priced.

Julie

:cheer: :signs069:

We can use 17 x 37 R&L

The prop in the machine is a 37P LH. Now as far as pricing we are aware of the retail price you all have been paying and the retail cost of a Mercury CNC #6 is $5800.00 each. Keep in mind guys that these are CNC propellers not hand labbed props.

Right now we are more focused on the R & D Process with the prototypes. We will be running the propeller this month and should be ready to custom build wheels for you guys VERY VERY soon!

Julie

My guess (now) is that it's more than 4K.:drink: :ernaehrung004:

Hi Julie,

The propeller looks real nice in the photo.

I don't want to cause any discontent but I wonder if I can ask a couple questions? I'm curious too and have been addressing some of these exact questions.

You mention these propellers are CNC'd, not Lab Finished by hand. Are you suggesting you produce them in a machine from a casting and then put then directly into a box. Or do you hand finish and hand buff them as the finishing process?

Also, as with any of your CNC'd propellers, how do you make adjustments to the propeller after the customer runs them? Let's say we need more bow lift or less stern lift than originally suspected. More rpm or less rpm? Can you put them back into the machine and rewrite the program to make the adjustment? (this would be 1000 programs to do what hand manipulating can create) or are the fine adjustments done by hand? Or do you supply a different propeller?

Thanks for your time.

Great question!

Thanks for asking.

Each situation with a customer is different. The goal is for the customer to ultimately have a propeller they are happy with.

Our feeling is working a CNC propeller by hand defeats the concept of a CNC manufactured propeller. When the prop comes out of the machine it is within .002" tolerance. It's not going to get any better. The more it's touched by hand the worse it's going to get.

Yes, these propeller can be run right out of the machine, unlike those of other manufacturers. Some burrs would have to be removed but that's about it. In reality the customer expects a more "finished" product. Therefore certain areas of the prop are touched up by hand. Many area of the props, the critical areas, are untouched, for example the pressure side and cup. Of course the edges are final finished and the propeller has to undergo a light satin finish to remove the discoloration caused by heat treatment.

As far as adjustments go, that depends. If the rpm isn't right we will manufacture a new propeller. We will NEVER repitch one of our propellers. Minor diameter reductions will be done by hand if necessary but that's about it.

The propeller is manufatured with a cup profile we expect will work best for the application it's designed for. We don't make one prop and hand work it for the application.

Is it alot of programming? YOU BET. Do we have programs that have been used once and will never be used again, yes.

Most propellers we manufacture have different programs in one manner or another. Everytime I see something I think can improve the product it's incorporated into the product. Product development never stops.

Thank you for the response. It is well thought out.

I'm not exactlly in agreement as to the statement about working any propeller by hand to fine tune it, is defeating the purpose of CNCing the original casting. To me, taking a more precise starting point and massaging it if needed would make sense. It's art metals.

Who has determined all CNC'd propellers can outperform all Hand Labbed propellers is what I want to know? That would be a pretty ballsy statement.

Anyway, as I was already aware of, CNC'd propellers don't come out of the machine and go into the box. You need to remove tooling marks and buff the propeller. Yes the thicknesses and progression and overall geometry should be better than a investment casting. But, standard castings can be trued to meet the spec.s and needs of most all boaters.

One of the downsides to the CNC'd props is that you can't or won't change pitch or rework them. I totally understand the process of building the propeller to fit the exact needs of the customer, we do that every day. However, situations change as do set ups. The question I asked was can or will you rework a CNC'd TU propeller if it is off just a bit. I guess you answered that question.

I appreciate your cander and I look forward to seeing some of your work. I'm sure you will be very successful in this new endevor.

Just a note, we do not remove tooling marks. They are left in the prop. Again, removing the tooling marks will only lead to a person working the prop by hand and potentially hurting the performance of the propeller.

Hand work can not come close to the tolerance that can be cut in a CNC machine. The machine is cabable of tolerances of .0002". There is no way possible to work anything by hand that will come close to those tolerances. It stands to reason anything manufactured to a tighter tolerance will outperform something of a lesser tolerance.

That's why the trend in propellers is going toward CNC manufacturing. This trend will continue to increase and in the near future, just as lab finishing is now, will become a standard for all high performance propellers.

We realized it as did Mercury. I can have a $10 and hour employee run a machine and make propellers that are a higher tolerance and more consistant than the best propeller person anywhere. As a boat manufacturer it is nice to know they receive propellers that are consistantly the same time and time again, something that can't be done by hand, especially if different people are working the propellers.

While there will always be a need for propellers to be worked by hand and there will be applications where only a hand worked prop will work. My personal opinion is machined propellers will also fill a market. I hope so anyway, we have a lot of money invested in that theory.

Time will tell what the future holds for CNC propellers. Now that there are several manufacturers in the market the product should improve even more as manufacturers try to out do each other. It's an exciting time. The customer is the one who will benefit.

look what a cnc machine has done for cylinder heads. Every port is exactly the same !! I bought a new prop awhile back and it didnt look rite to me so I made something to spin it on and take measurements, quit crude, sent it back to them and was assured it was fine!! After paying for shipping twice not having a prop for 7 weeks !!!Then I sent it out to be scanned and one blade pitch maxed at 29 and another at almost 32!!I had to send them the scan report to get a new prop. NEVER AGAIN

Those were the exact frustrations I felt! Pitch between right and left is different, diameter is not as large as it should be, tracking out, pitch or rake so far out it is not realistic to straighten, pitch progression different between right and left, completely different blade designs between right and left, etc, etc.

When lab finishing a prop all these things are adjusted but when the prop is so far out it's unusable. You end up scrapping the prop and starting with another one.

After enough of that I thought why not make the propellers in a CNC machine. Many told me we would never be able to do it. Many have tried and failed but we felt is was the only way to bring a product to market that meet the tolerances we were trying to achieve. It's really the next logical step beyond lab finishing.

The complexities of machining a prop are HUGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I now understand why it's not common place. We learn something new everyday.

You know 2 years from now their will be 6 other companies using the same machine with the same program and prices will hopefully fall !! Just look at flat screens !! Once your testing is done (CNC to mercurys best) I can see your machine running 24/7 !! So whos taking the night shift ? One last thing . Your still going to have some human error with the prop ! The error is going to be the customer not giving you the rite info on the boats setup ! Their going to tell you one thing when in actuality the boat needs another. But I guess you already have that problem. Best of luck and it sure does look like a winner

If you snap half the blade off who can fix it????

Lets think positive!!

Thats just it you dont you call and get exactly what you had down to the .0002 !!

Congratulations Julie!!!
It looks Awesome. Please put me on your list for the set of props we discussed.... Your recommendations were right on, on my last set and I look forward to having a CNC'd (with the cool tooling marks) set next.
Best of luck, Keep up the Great work!
Rob Whitney 910-524-5438

Now we are getting with the program!

This is one of the incredible features of CNC Props.

Gratzi!

Rob, I will call you Monday and we can discuss everything.

Just curious that if the tooling marks are left in the blade
would that not increase a place a fracture may start?


Not trying to rain on what you guys are doing.
I think the trueness and consistancy will be amazing!



Gerry

I find this absolutely fascinating... I would LOVE to test some CNC props vs labbed product on either of my Donzi's...

I am very curious about a couple things,,,, okay maybe 3 or 4 things :)

1) what happens to the hydro laminar flow across the blade with the machining troughs? is it faster?? meaning the prop turns easier or just the opposite??

2) CNC products make it extremely easy for copycat vendors later on copying your work and repackaging their product, and you've done the homework... how do you protect yourself from your innovations, and proprietary designs??

3) is it safe to assume that balancing is an issue of the past?

4) as Brett stated, i'm still not sure why the blades couldn't be manually tweaked for minor corrections??

Jim

More great questions Buizilla.

Are you only doing #6 props or are Bravo XR applications available?

BUIZILLA, Questions lead to more questions. In your second question you mentioned coping cnc props being easy. Well what came first the original program or the copy program? Kind of like the chicken or the egg.
Jim

doesn't matter if it's a chicken, or the egg.... new CNC needle scribers can copy ANYTHING they want.... it would be great to see proprietary stuff not copied, but it's gonna happen... just look at the new 7 axis scribers doing hull flips

Good questions. As far as water flow over the surface. Let's say our Bravo and outboard props have been the fastest on many boats. Deep V cats just set a very nice Kilo with our CNC props.

Not worried about the props being copied. The technical aspects of machining a complex 3D 5 axis part is not something to be undertaken by the machine shop down the street. Then there would be the problem of making different pitches and diameters, changing pitch progression, cup profile, blade chord length, blade thickness, etc. So if you just copied one prop you would have a very limited product line. If you are making props and know nothing about the propeller characteristics you wouldn't be able to service or modify the model for the application. Not to mention you would have to make a mold for a casting first before you could even start machining, that's not nearly as easy as it sounds.

Balancing is not a thing of the past. The props are checked for balance and adjusted as necessary. What is very consistent is the moment. Even if a prop is statically balanced if the moment is far out it can still vibrate or won't be smooth.

As far as getting a cast prop as true as a CNC prop. It's possible. But to get it as close to a CNC prop would take so much time it would cost you more than a CNC prop. Even that, take 10 CNC props cut with the same program and they will run within 0-15 rpm of each other. Then take 10 lab finished props made from the same person for the same application and the rpm difference will be much greater than that.

I love the Smart Craft system in the newer boats. It's a great sales aid. When testing I point out to the customer the rpm between the motors. Typically it's within 0-15 rpm. You won't see that with lab finished propellers very often.

2112,
They do have props for XR applications.

We currently have Sterndrive Semi-Cleavers, Outboard Cleavers and now our newsest propellers in the line-up,
SSM #6's.

The 5B RH #6 propeller is machining today. We will be testing with an OEM in the next week or so and then with some Offshore Teams as well. I will post the data as it becomes available!

#6 Cnc Rh 5b
 

As promised here is the RH being machined!

throttleup,
You should post a video of 5 axis machining of a prop. I am a CNC machine shop that does 3 and 4 axis work, I am still amazed by it. Probably very few people here understand the process ....you wouldn't be giving away any secrets, just educating......

Randy

Randy, while I would love to have a short video of some machining I feel it may reveal some secrets. I'm sure you can appreciate the fact we have spent a tremendous amount of time and money in tooling, fixturing, and machine selection. Not to mention the angles we machine the props at. There is a lot of trial and error.

Machined Propeller RH
 

Finished #6 RH CNC Propeller.

Broaching~
 

We Broached the prop today!

Does "Broached the Prop" mean it came out feet first?
How much did it weigh?
How long was it?
I see that from the "first born" photos there are 5 digits.
Did Matt have cigars available for his buddies?

Tips first
20 lbs
16.75"
5 digits RH & LH
You know the cigars were Great!

Julie

Race Ready!
 

:evilb::evilb::evilb:



:party-smiley-020: We are so pleased with this set I just had to show them off!

If it makes you feel better, you can buy me a set:D:D

39's are on their way!

Hi Julie, Those look fantastic !!!

How would you like to qoute us a trade, taking our new in the box,never in the water,labbed 16.5 x 34, 5 blade mercury,RH and LH,for your 5 blades...not sure about pitch that we need...But will know soon.

LE/JE-
Let me know when you get that bad boy in the water! It should scream.
What degree of rake is in the 5 blade 16.5 x 34" props?
TIA
John