Engine build recommendations 454/502/or BOOST
 

Hey guys some of you may know my boat, but with bad luck and lack of funds the engine boat build will not see water till next year as priorities always hit in summer. (HVAC TECH) so I'm outsourcing to see what my OSO family would think to best fit my wants and driving behavior.
I'm tossing the idea between 3 engine builds that are doable for next season. With wants to maybe attempt a poker run with the big boys just to be out there In the Environent. I only have 2 seasons of seat time and managed low 70's in my IMP. Hull is straight, perfect x-dimension and nice trim with the better TRS 4-blade Spinelli 25 pitch. Boat has maybe 80hrs since 87' when new. So here's the list.

1). Current set up allowed low 70's with borrowed 23 pitch @6500
850 Holley
Team G intake
Solid roller
Custom comp cam 292 .693/.695 @ .50 degree on 106 Intake Lobe Centerline.
781 oval port (ported and polished bowls and ports) with 2.25/1.88
Approximate compression is 10:1's.
Bore is still 4.250 and 4.00 stroke.
Stelling dry exhaust w/ dampers ( exhaust is probably worth more then boat I know). HP=unknown
Just ordered file fit rings so I can change pistons and ring gap if build desides to change.

2) Finish build with dyno sheet and sell to build 502/540 n/a

3). Keep 454 change to hyraulic roller with cam change, sell heads, or change pistons, for lower compression and find a nice older B&M 250 or equivalent blower is great shape. I would also install 4- bolt main caps (currently 2-bolt with all ARP Hardware)

4) or the cheapest route (probably smartest). But complete build call Bob Madera and change to hydraulic roller with Morels and maybe switch to 3-blade and hope to keep it in the 70's???

Thoughts ideas or criticism for still owning a tank is always allowed. I'm wanting to get more seat time and plan on getting better driving at WOT. Thank you for any input.

http://i1168.photobucket.com/albums/...ps8aa1dccc.jpg

This was the only shot I have of the headers as I was starting disassembly.

http://i1168.photobucket.com/albums/...ps34620821.jpg

After about 3 different iterations, Bob and I finally decided forged 496 stroker (all callies bottom end) setup with dry exhaust and Holley MPFI. Went with a healthy cam from bob and Morel High RPM lifters. As you may know, bob is a gentleman and a scholar(genius needs to be thrown in), so you couldn't go wrong planning a complete build with him. My advice is pick something that will give you reliability! Speed is great, however your boat sitting in the garage in pieces really sucks.

If it were mine id opt for a 540 N/A dry exhaust, good aluminum heads(AFR, Dart, Brodix...) bobs valvetrain and EFI if you can swing it. If not a proven intake package. To me, waiting to get things exactly how you want them is worth a season of no boating.

^^^ Borgie I couldn't agree more on Bob. Talked to him a few times. I want to step away from the solids as I need to purchase rollers now anyhow. Original builder/owner used a off brand and well.... They broke! The 496 sounds tempting. And I can use the forged crank out of the 454 for my street truck! Thanks Borgie I will Definitely consider those options. Thank you.

You forgot about the 5th and probably the best option. Sell the mustang in the picture to some unlucky sucker and use the money to build something that runs :-)

Yeah you are welcome. A 496 is a great choice as long as you get some nice cylinder heads and a custom cam to bring our their full potential. You can make 600hp fairly easy these days out of a 496, and being able to re use the 454 block is a nice bonus which saves money.

However I did end up spending a lot of money, not even adding in the EFI. My goal is 650hp. Will hopefully be on the dyno by August. I'm having a house built right now, so haven't had time to finish assembling the engine. Just take your time and build it exactly the way you want it. If that means you are down a season, so be it. I have a life and busy career, plus young family, so boats aren't #1 on my priority list. I do however feel blessed to have an amazing wife who has supported me in spending more than I ever dreamed on a Performace boat, on top of a new home.

I couldn't have done this project without the help of some really great guys here, Bob Madara, Mark Rinda, Alex Haxby, Glassdave... And countless others. This is truly the best site for a guy looking to build a Performace boat. I'm sure you've seen this first hand in your interactions here as well.

Haha I just picked up a trans for it finally. At a whopping $2800. But it's crossed my mind a few times! ;-)
Thanks again Borgie, I'm also in the process of some major home construction and going nutz not having an excape to get on the water this year. Great advise! No kids here and wife's rule is build what makes you happy! She has the gear head disease as well. I'd hope with a switch to the 496 I'd at least hit a solid 76 with prop change. And this allows me to beat my little brother at 76.4 on GPS. At least I'd beat him in good chop as he's only in a 19' caribe. It's a brothers War but all in good fun! You sound like a lucky guy! Good luck on the house build!

Also if you guys could help in the $$$ department. It seems the out of pocket differences between buying a 502 and selling the 454 finished is significantly higher the outing the extra $ for the stroker kit. In building the 496 which I'm leaning more towards with Borgie's advice. Will my ported and polished oval port heads and bigger valves help me with Torque since my IMP weigh's in about 6k lbs. Understanding the 496 will make more Trq at lower RPM which will help cruise speeds as well. And will my intake and Carb work well with the 496? Thinking of the RPM Airgap as my team G intake is rated for higher RPM anyhow. I may give Bob a call this week and pickle his brain a bit. But a man with his knowledge I want to have my facts straight before calling.
*** also not this engine is a 2-bolt main. I'm thinking yes cheap insurance to make a 4-bolt main but opinions also welcome as always. I've heard some say the 2-bolt is still fine with correct ARP hardware.

Heres a quick vid when we did run it. Just figured id share. Quality kinda sucks but a GoPro is in order for my Birthday!


http://youtu.be/ZiDKY6s807g

Id run a 496 over selling it all and buying a 502 just for getting 6 more cubes.

The 781's will be useable on a 496, IMO.

Talk to Bob about which intake when you talk about cams, but he might want you to run the single plane intake.

Nice looking Terminator, whats all done to that?

Stopped by my old place of work, (JB's Auto Machine) in White Marsh, MD. Going to switch over to a 4-bolt Main Sticking with 496 Plans. Busy week this week and Pobably won't have a chance to hit Bob Up just yet. Going to sell my steel crank rods and pistons. All in perfect shape and really low hours. Just to try and recoup some funds for stroker assembly.

For the terminator comment thanks for noticing lol .... :violent040: it's pretty nasty setup. But I won't go too far off topic
04 ow with 15k miles
-ported eaton
-2.8 upper / 4lb lower
-MAC long tubes/ borla stingers no cats
-e85
-magnum t-56 with McLeod twin disc
-oh and 125 shot of the happy juice.
530rwhp and gobs a of torque on the sauce

I de-modded to this.... It was at 700rwhp 2.3 whipple on e-85 but trans went out and trans cost $2700.

Overall thanks for a the advise! 496 it is! And can't wait till next year! Best thing will be the look on my brothers face as I pull on him.....hopefully! As I notices another small block at the shop marked Kraus knowing it was his. It was a whole new block so looks like we both have some secrets....hmmmmm I love this game!

Shame you couldnt put that Whipple on the boat, LOL.

Maybe even plan on further down the road, by that I mean keep the cam and compression in mind just in case you need a blower on it in a couple seasons...:whistle:

It's been thought of trust me! Haha it's also the reason I considered changing the 454. $10k engine or more in a $5k boat! Hahaha actually paid 10 for it and with it being in great shape (sub 100hrs) it's worth the build to me. My dad has exact same setup. So it's worth it to me at least.

I really like the way you ran those hoses across the top, is that only doable with a specific thermostat housing?

If your gonna do the stroker , I'd keep the bore size at its current 4.250 or minimal over bore to true things up. No point in going .060 over unless the bores need to go there. I'd rather have the cylinder wall thickness over the minimal gains the extra 14ci will offer.

As far as a stroker giving you a better cruise speed because of the additional torque down low, it really doesn't work that way. If you had a 454 and a 496 that both make 500 ft lbs at wot , but the 496 makes an extra 30ft lbs at 3500rpm over the 454, you'll still swing the same prop pitch. Without more pitch, you simply can't increase cruise speed. Efficiency, possibly.

If i had a budget to stay within, and my option was a 496 with 781 iron heads, or a 454 with AFR, Brodix, or dart heads, I'd take the smaller 454 with better flowing, lighter weight, better structured heads all day long. The additional power from the better flowing heads, and higher allowable compression, will outperform the gains from simply adding 40 cubic inches. If you can do both the stroker kit AND the new heads, then obviously that is a no brainer.

Couple things things in your post I have also considered especially keeping it the stock bore. I am however switching over to 4- bolt main caps for future safety of running boost. With the heads vs. Stroker kit, cost is something else to think about between those 2. My dad just built a 427 with the cheaper pro comp heads but used good valve train and had awesome results on the dyno. Has anybody ran the pro comp aluminum heads? And I should be able to find a head with a larger cc rating to lower compression for boost.... Maybe season after next? Decisions decisions! I need a second job!

I wouldn't run pro comp heads on my weed eater...

Good luck to your dad.

Go over to yellowbullet.com and search pro comp heads....when you have a lot of free time. Be careful going over there....you've been warned, lol.

Sorry for a late answer. It's a STAINLESS WORKS piece..

The pro comps were on a 427 for a car. So far two months running it hard and no issues. But yes I've heard horror stories as I've been reading. And yellowbullet.... I'm well aware I'm on Svtperformance a lot. And the nudy thread pics on yellowbullet.....wow! Now people on OSO will be looking for them if they didn't already know!

Im not sure what you're talkin about...

:whistle:

Second that stay 454 with good alluminum heads will be waaaay better than 496 , plus better rod ratio for longevity call Ron iskenderian "isky cam" he will make a custom bump stick with steel gear, keep lift under .700 for valvetrain reliability Ron will dial you in and you will Fly past that iron head 496 plus you'll loose 40 lbs off the transom and you can run one compression point higher with alluminum heads

Looked online couldnt fine it

If he runs a 6.385 rod, there will be zero issue with reliability...

Hey Stim,
I went off if pure memory ( which is going to chit apparently). It's Stainless Marine Miami Florida. At least that's what's stated on the top. I remember the SW and was thinkig stainless works for some reason. Here's a crappy pic but hope you get the idea.

http://i1168.photobucket.com/albums/...psebcb68db.jpg

Also a update.... Just dropped off the block for the 4 bolt mains and ARP studs.