88 Excel Nearing Finish Finally!
 

Well, after 2 years down, and 2 paint jobs... Im finally re-rigging my canoe... Paint too much? I think Im overpowering the hull a bit with this new combination, but it sure has been alot of fun putting stuff together finally... What do you guys think?

http://http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewPicture&friendID=226 325600&albumId=970851

http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/inde...lbumId=1025082

Hopefully I'll have it all back together for the 4th of July weekend, I plan on taking it to Havasu... Ill post the completed pics up as soon as Its done!

Do you have any completed pics yet? Did you get it together as hoped?

The paint is a bit "much" for my tastes...but dang nice looking job on it. Tell us more about the boat's history, specs, etc...

But I'll also add...I love that paint on the bow/deck. That turned out NICE!!!

ever get to the point in a project where you think you have everything you need or want? i was there, until i realized that i didnt have time to hustle to get it done... then i made time, and realized i didnt have everything i needed, well, wanted...lol. did i say 4th of july in that first post? apparently i meant 2010...

ill post some current pics of my progress in a couple days. this thing would probably have been done by now had i not started to nitpick everything in the boat and gotten so picky. you know, stupid things like (i heard a voice in my head, and now i wish i would have blocked it out).... "i dont like the factory black controls", so i buy some white controls... "crap, i dont like those either, who makes something really cool?"... or, "you know, that brand new steel offshore mount is pretty cool, but i bet the billet one would be cooler" , or better yet, "damn, these new gauges look great, but i sure hate the half sweep look, and since livorsi doesnt make what i want, lets see if they can custom make me some of the gauges the way i want them".... it just keeps going on and on.

now i figure i need 1 of 2 things to get this done... a can of gas and a match, or a bigger funnel to stick into the fu**ing thing to swallow money at a faster pace than it already has... lol... i just want my friggin boat back. i kick myself at least twice every day for fu**ing with sh*t that wasnt broken....

anybody else out there that can relate?

well, here goes...

its an 88 excel 28 that i bought from a "really, really good friend" you know, the whole "nothing wrong with it" boat...lol, right.

had a stroked 454 mag in it, with stock exhaust, pfaff cam, and a dart intake. ran 68 like that... for about 3 trips out until one of the manifolds started leaking into the motor so bad, that it dropped an intake seat. at this point, i should add that in those 3 trips out, it went through 3 starters, a fuel pump, a rubber exhaust hose, and needed a carb rebuild. (nope, not a thing wrong with it right?

so i go through the motor, add a set of pfaff merlin heads, drop the compression a touch because i wanted to put a blower on when money was right, an imco box, hydraulic steering, new interior, and a set of stellings aluminum manifolds with dry tails. oh yeah, a new ring gear too, because the previous 3 starters and who knows how many before i bought it, killed the ring gear. i also figured now was a good time to stuff a bunch of stereo crap into it, cuz it needed 400 more pounds like it needed an anchor in the water while trying to come on plane...

1st trip out, runs 63... wtf?!?!?!?! ok, do some tuning, fix a couple of my own screw ups, cool... lets get it back out on the water and see what happens... key on, crank, ching... yeah, we all know the sound of starter death... i wont repeat the catch phrases i used at that moment.... back to the parts counter for ANOTHER new starter, ill take a spare while im here, just for good measure. go back out, fire it up, head out with my trusty gps... ok, i feel better now 73! woo hoo, 10k and 5 mph... im getting somewhere now, lol. so now here i am, in the middle of lake mead, taking a break and just double checking on things, timing, carb, shut it down to check the plugs... ok everything looks good, lets take a quick dip in the water, and head back for lunch and a few beers... key on, crank, ching--- oh fu*ck me, youve got to be kidding. gad as hell i picked up the spare "just for good measure". swap that out, now im too pissed to eat or think straight, so i jump straight to the beer. long story short, one of the starter bolt holes in the block was drilled slightly offset. come to find out, the putz that sold me the boat had put roughly 100 starters on this thing. so i buy a tilton starter, drill a bolt hole out, and use a piece of 1/2" steel tube, cut down the middle to relieve the offset. back to the water i go. couple prop changes, and a few timing changes and my trusty gps rips off a 76. ok, i guess im happy now. so now im thinking, this is cool, but theres a few scratches on the sides id like to have fixed. ill just wait till january and run it by my buddys body shop, he can match the paint for me real quick, and i wont be down during season.

january, drag the ***** down to the body shop and tell good ole george what i want... "just match the colors the best you can to fill in the scratches, whole things supposed to be covered in house of kolors". george says, sorry pal, not so much. its all single stage crap, i wanna paint it. for 7500, ill throw some paint on it make it look good as new, same design and all. 7500 later, he says " gonna need a bit more cash from you", i say "how much george?", he fires back "about 6500... alot more material than i was expecting, but ill do some REALLY SWEET graphics for that price also". ok, done... whens it gonna be done (mind you, i dropped it off 1-5-08, and its now 2-1-08 and supposed to be done already)
he says "no later than the end of the month, I PROMISE!" hehe, yeah right... fast forward through the ensuing mayhem to follow that statement to halloween... "its ready, come put it back on the trailer"... yay me, im so excited to get it back, since i basically lost my entire season, i hope its really cool! i get there and im like, wtf is that? are you fu**ing kidding me? holy ****, it looked way better with all the scratches the way it was before... "my painter quit, and i got stuck with this new guy that said he was really good, sorry for your bad luck, but i cant afford to pay another painter and for all new material... youll just have to deal with it. ill make it up to you later, if i can..." ok, well im thinking, this **** aint over, but i need my boat fixed. aroung march i found someone i liked to do the new new paint job, but he was pretty pricey... said it would have been less, if he didnt have to spend 40-50 hours sanding down all the garbage paint the previous painter s[rayed on there.... (you know im pissed at this point), but he says he can have it done in a month (thinking to myself, ive heard this before, but whatever). 4-7-08, wifes birthday... painter calls... "come see what you think before i clear it". wow, really? sweet, wife and i head over, holy crap, this is great. 4-11-08, cmon on down and pick it up, its done... btw, bring your checkbook...lol. without starting to cry again, ill just say that after the 1st painters 14k, and the 2nd painters bill, ive got way more than double the boats value in paint work.

sorry for the long story, but im sure at least one person out there will have found at least enough entertainment from my painfull story to justify the time it took to read about it...lol

ill keep my progress posted now that "its finally all coming together... again... i think"


lvrm

very nice boat,I think it looks great, look forward to seeing pic's in the water. Everyone has more into their boat then its worth but you have one of a kind.
--------------
Keith

It's done! It's even running!
 

FINALLY finished it... Now I get to play the "what else does it need" game. First run out with the high boost setup got me 96.5 at half throttle, about 4700 rpm's. Had to pull off throttle due to the a/f leaning out a bunch. Ran it like that for the afternoon until I sheared the 3 bolts that go through the pulleys into the balancer. Backed the boost down several pounds, and now I'm doing some fine tuning. Trying to work out a weird plop slippage issue. It's got an Imco box with 3" lift and a 2" shorty. Centerline of the prop shaft is 3.25" below the bottom of the pad... I'm running a merc labbed 35 Maximus on it right now and I'm seeing over 20% slip. Any thoughts? Tried a 34 b1, slip figures are pretty similar. Starting to have the urge to pull my hair out now.

slippage
 

With that kind of slippage I would try a standard bravo and see what kind of slippage u have with it. sounds like the drive is to high even though it is 3" below the bottom it maybe getting bad water.

Got any photos you can post for those that dont want or have a my space account. Im verry interested in seeing your boat. Please list some more specs on what you have and did. 96.5 makes that the fastest 28 I know of......................... Now Im second fastest :mad:

BTW try a 1" spacer to help the slip. the X sounds high to me

96 MPH at 4700 RPM - doesn't sound right for an excel but then I can't spin a 35" prop either. I want a ride.

Hot boat, scarab 28- posted pics of the completed boat on the scarab pics thread, last page. Since my last posts here, a lot has transpired... Done a lot of testing, and even more tuning! I have a TON of data recorded and answers to most of the questions I had before. Now the only thing I have left to figure out, is how to keep a drive on this thing, lol! Im taking it to Havasu end of April for the desert storm run and shootout. The friggin thing is a rocketship and handles great, but I did find the place where it turns from fun to terrifying...

Nice - the fastest 28' AND the hottest paint job. How much boost are you runing? - is that an M-3 or M-4? I love what you did with the dash also. Very nice. So you started with a 454 - what did you end up with? Gotta love those 3 yr projects, heck, mine was all together 3 yrs ago and now it's got parts scattered all over again - never ends!

It's 505 cubes right now with an f3r. The goal was to keep the low end torque down so the drive would live... Fat chance there. At 2300 rpm's, all hell breaks loose, which is about when it sees 5-6 lbs of boost depending on pulley size. I've run it with 32lbs a few times, but had issues. It's run it's best to date at 23lbs... Spun a stock 30 Maximus to 6800 in about a half of a mile with 9% slip, going up river in Parker. I'm gonna set it back on kill for the shootout, and try to set a single engine v hull record. Besides all the drive issues, I'm really starting to have a lot of fun with it!

The boat is absolutely BEAUTIFUL!!!

Way to funny story, just because I am crying in my own heap of the same S#!+ right now.
I use to own a 29 EXCEL but decided to go bigger with a 34 twin engine.
WTF was I thinking? I have 2 times the problems & expense right now (without all the beautiful paiting & new dash you have done).
If I can get my A$$ together and make the decision between my 454s I took out just to do a ring & bearing job on and finding out how much water intrussion with little compression I had, to now a major rebuild throwing away those peanut heads or finding another 502 to match the one I have sitting I might have it ready for Havasu Deset Storm.
I already have the week off. One way or another I'm still going even if I have to take the family out in pops 21' Carrera.
The beer just doesn't taste as good when it isn't yours.

34- I think deep down in the back of every performance boaters mind, these stories bring back memories for everyone... Because I really believe that 90% of all restorations and customs start the exact same way... "I'll just freshen things up a bit", or "I could clean and repaint that spot, if that one thing wasn't in the way", or my favorite, "just a couple bolt on hp should be ok, it won't be that big a deal"... Lol, yeah freakin right! Were all suckers! If I had it all to do over again, I'd still do it, just maybe not in the same order... I love my little boat!

:worthless_without_p

give us some spes on the final setup, like HP , x dimension hight, setback, did you do any hull work???

I would love to know.

Hot boat- first time the boat got painted, I had it up on stands for a few months. I straightened the bottom 6 feet forward till it was perfectly smooth, knocked out all the imperfections and factory hook. I smoothed the face edge of the ride pad and transitioned it into the hull rather than leaving the flat face, and I cleaned up the hook in the pad- wasn't bad, had an 1/8" that spanned 6". Still playing with the x dimension, but I've found that 3 1/2" keel to propshaft cl has been best for me. Tried running a little deeper, but on my higher boost setting, she got really violent as far as feeling like it was trying to roll itself over- especially in any kind of rougher water that allowed more of the hull to free up. It would get itself to a point that the prop would biting so hard that it wanted to twist over... Quite nerve racking at times. Motor has been raised 3" with a 2" short lower. Currently running a 35" Maximus which could be part of the twisting problem. Changing gear ratios now so I can pitch down a bit. Stringers were reinforced with an extra 2 layers of glass laid 10" out from the base on either side, in one piece, with the second layer laid bi-directionally. Motor went in with 1/2" 6x6" alum angle, trimmed for aesthetics, in 4 places. Front 3/8" billet offshore mount and 1/4" rear offshore mount as well as the bravo transom mounting bolts- essentially 6 point mounted. The goal was to solidify the stringers structure as good as possible. Rather than using stringer washers on the back sides for the mounts, we cut 1/2"x6" plates down and drilled with the main mounts for extra strength. Used 1/2" grade 8 bolts going through the stringers- 4 at each corner, and 7/16" grade 8 bolts at each corner for the actual motor mounts to stringer mounts. The wood bulkhead panel was trimmed to fit around the pulleys and blower belt, and the upper glass lip was trimmed to fit around the snout. To make things simple with engine install, I cut a 24" panel in the center of the bulkhead from top to floor, then glassed in 2"x 3/8" aluminum rails that I drilled and tapped for 10/24 screws so the panel could be bolted back in. Not overly thrilled with the sawzall job on that abortion, thank goodness the seat covers most of it. Beer n sawzalls shouldn't be used together- ever. As I said before, the motor is 505" with Merlin heads and an f3r Procharger with a huge air-liquid cooler. Motor makes right at 1000hp on pump gas at 5-6 lbs, and substantially more on race gas at 28-32 lbs. Engine combo is actually getting changed right now because the small cube combo is extremely violent coming into boost. Initially wanted to kill some bottom end torque to prolong drive life, but at about 2300 rpm's, it hits so hard that it's annihilating parts. Motor has a 3 stage ke water pump with a 1 1/4" bottom pickup feeding it through a dual basket Hardin strainer. Pump feeds the motor with 1 stage, exhaust with another, and the ic with the last stage. Ic and engine dumps are through the transom above the box and the exhaust dumps at the tips. Made custom bulkheads for the fuel, -16 pickup runs to an aeromotive prefilter, then to an eliminator pump, then -12 forward to the filter/separator, then -12 to the regulator. -12 return from the regulator back to the tank. I also have a pretty retarded stereo system in there, so there are 4 batteries, which I mounted under the cockpit floor- directly under the front seats to help balance the weight in the boat. If you decide to try this, group 65 batteries out of a superduty are the only ones worth a **** that actually fit in there. Had to make mounts so they could sit flat... This was a real motherfu**er, but in reality- was necessary. I used Dana hp1100 tabs flat mounted, but I've had to move them a couple times to take drag away. If you follow their reccomendation, they will be installed about 1/2" above the strake- DONT put them there! Even all the way up, I may as well have had them all the way down. I moved them up almost 2" from the bottom of the strake, and in about 1". If you run the Maximus prop, take the diameter down to about 15 1/4- 15 1/2" and remove about 3/4" from the ring. Otherwise they have a tendency to lift the transom too much- they were really designed for cats and twins in a near surfacing application. I'm gonna be doing some testing in about 2-3 weeks with the new drive and motor combo, I'll let you know how all that goes. Hope something here helps! If you ever wanna chat, gimme a call 702-604-5206, I'm more than happy to share anything I've learned.

Glenn

Any updates - been a while?

Went to desert storm last weekend, met Paul (Hot Boat). Boat looked pretty good. Had a few problems early on, nothing too serious... Went with a B-Max drive. The new owner over there is awesome, his name is John- I can say that I highly recommend thisdrive to anyone with big power and a bravo setup. Day one in Havasu, hit the lower unit in the cav plate area with a grinder for prop clearance and somehow managed to shake the bolt that goes through the cav plate into the upper loose without noticing. Took it out for a break in run and the bolt backed out. Wiped out a brand new, fresh labbed 30 Maximus and bent the propshaft and wiped out the cav plate. Morning of day two, welded up the cav plate and went to the show. Morning of day 3, John from the bravo shop(bmax) shows up at my house at 7am to replace the propshaft(now that's what I call service). Head to the poker run... This was my first poker run so I opted to lag behind and follow so I knew what to do and where to go... Bad idea, these boats don't work well in water that's been churned up by 200 other boats. Finally find some clean water, get to roll into it with the new combo for the first time! Oooh wheeee fellas! First good pull runs 128.1 , started at a 46mph roll to 128.1 in just over 15 seconds and in about 2000 ft, shut down at about 5800. About an hour later I stretched it out again, this time to about 6100- 133.7! Got on it once more at the end of the day and only ran it to about 6000 before water conditions were no good, right at 131. Didn't have a trim indicator setup due to the differences in the drive, so my slip numbers were back and forth a bit. All in all, a decent Friday. I've never chopped throttle before, but at 6k, this thing was still pulling harder than it did at 4k... There's a lot more left, was thinking Saturday was a better day to get crazy. Early Saturday, get a call from the shootout crew- shootout postponed due to wind, so I go back to bed. 3 hours later, coast guard calls the event- shootout cancelled this year. Oh well, that sucks, but now I can relax. 3pm, one of my buddies is going stir crazy, let's go to the lake- ok, we'll chill in the channel and relax! Head to the lake, launch, and there's a boat in distress crashing against the rocks- wife says I gotta help. She parks the truck, and I go to help... That's where the weekend goes south. Long story short, I end up in the rocks, taking on water- 5 minutes later, the grim repo is resting on the sand 10 feet offshore in lake Havasu. Insurance adjuster came by today and figures there's 40-45k in damage, my policy only covers 20k. Moral of the story, don't help unless your prepared to lose your prized possession. Not to say I wouldn't do it again in a heartbeat, but damn... This sucks! Consequently, think I may have some stuff for sale. I doubt I'm gonna do all this again. With all the little problems I've had with this in the last 2 weeks, I kinda felt like I shouldn't go- kinda like someone or something was trying to warn me off, guess I shoulda listened to my gut.

By the way, before everyone starts with the argument about how the boat ran- the new drive ratio is 1.30:1. I ran a 34 pitch Maximus that I had labbed to some specs that I've been playing with on previous props based on recommendation from the guys that designed it. The motor made 2389 hp at 8100 rpm's at 31lbs of boost on c16. The tune that was in the motor for the poker run was setup for 100 octane and was the same tune that made 1597 at 8050 at 23 lbs. At 6000-6100 which is where I ran it to, it was good for 15-16 lbs and about 1225. By all rights, this thing should have been a lot faster, but these hulls weren't designed to go anywhere near this fast. Now let the brow beating begin, lol...

glenn it was a pleasure to meet you, sorry we didnt have more time to hang out. My phone was dead most of the weekend. Using my gps and camera killed the battery fast and i didnt have a car charger.

I so sorry about the boat. it looked awesome in person. I love the haller as well. I do have to say you have some set of balls to run that hull that fast. After we talked i did a prop slip calculation at lunch and we couldnt believe what it said. You ran close to where we had the boat set to run. Truly incredible. I will say I will never try and beat that record. to bad the radar run was canceled. we were looking forward to seeing it run.

So Just for the record. I didnt see the boat run but I did see the setup and there is no reason it couldnt run well over 130mph

Insane .......... thats all i can say .

Hope you get it back together

Paul

Thanks Paul. I never wanted to say a lot on here about numbers, because I just didn't want to have to argue about anything. Kinda felt like it would just be best to wait until the numbers were posted. As far as balls go with this hull, once I found some clean water- the hardest part of driving it to that speed was holding my head up from the wind off the bow. The boat itself felt strong and stable at the speed. As far as running it in the rough water, thanks- but no thanks. I kept it about 45 for most of the day. There's a you tube video of me running around a dcb with twin 300 or 350 outboards on our way to the first stop. I managed a respectable pull to run around him, but I couldn't maintain it for too long before I started getting tossed around real bad. I still haven't decided what to do from here. I'm kinda thinking a 39' gtx or 42' lightning with 2 of these motors would be a really good time, and a lot more comfortable. I just don't know what to do. Seems like a real waste to scrap such a cool project now, after so much time, effort, and money. I still really haven't gotten to see what it can really do. On the same hand though, I'd really hate to spend another 40-45 grand to fix it, and pretty much be at the end of it's capabilities. Not to mention questioning if the bottom will ever be the same and safe to try to run these numbers again.

Wow - that really sucks - I thought I had bad luck - Great numbers Glenn.

So I decided to let the boat sit for a few months while I calmed my nerves a bit... Decided to go ahead and try the shootout again this year. I've made a few changes, nothing too serious- dropped from the 1.3 ratio down to a 1.19 ratio in the drive, and I'm gonna spin it ccw now. Also pulled some dead weight out. Wanted to see if Paul is still around, wanna kick some aerodynamics ideas back and forth... Also, for you excel28 guys, I tried a new prop that seems to work VERY well on our boats. My prop guy had been trying to get me to run it for a while, and I finally broke down and decided to test it. It's a Ron Hill Signature series 5 blade. Had a TON of trim response vs bravo1 props and any of the Maximus props I ran previously. Should be a great prop for anyone with shallower propshaft depths, and should work well with up to about 850-900hp. I expanded the blades on mine about 1 1/2" within the first 4 minutes of testing, but Chad Hill is casting another for me with thicker blades and a stouter root... Could be interesting!

Paul, if your still around, pm me please... I wanna see what your perspective is on a couple lil things...

I remember meeting you right after your whole incident in Havasu. We talked in the parking lot on Sunday outside of autozone right before we left town. Your boat was covered in oil from that whole mess! Anyways, Im glad to hear you got the boat fixed and will be running again in the top speed shootout.

Yep, I remember that... Small world... Think it was O'Reilly actually. I was pretty bummed about the whole thing at the time, but I've got a better outlook on things now, should be a fun event this time around!