Strip Poker 388

iTrader: (6)

Heres a pick of the oil bypass valve .I was told this is the 35 pound one.#25013759 for 3.21 each.


5-09 I pluged the holes,didnt use the valves

Strip Poker 388

iTrader: (6)

Square decked it and it came up to 9.770 deck height. So the piston is going to be 10 out of the hole The ra was 50.. I talked to my budy at felpro and he sugested the MLS gaskets that will give me an extra 10.

Strip Poker 388

iTrader: (6)

Alright I got the oil pumps in and took them apart. the look better than the regular 77 series pumps.looks like a lot better pump. Just spinning it by hand even feel smother that the old style .

You can see where I smoothed out the oil passage on the rear main cap. Ran the sandpaper cone down the passage also.The new oil pump looks alittle smoother than the oil style should be ok .Mark at Precision told me I am making too much of a deal about the oil pump thing .Over kill I guess.cant hurt

Last pick your see the new body and the new style steel gears with the extended shafts.

Strip Poker 388

iTrader: (6)

The new pump has metric Allen head bolts ,the have teeth under the head also. they did not have locktite on them from Melling.The new style pump comes with a hex style oil pump shaft , the collar is made into the shaft unlike the Moroso /Arp had a pin in it.The top cap has dowel pins in it also.the machining in the body looks better than the old style.I did see some casting flash ,Ill try and remove some

On the cap I took the screw in plug out with the spring and valve. it comes with the purple high pres in it . the other was in the box. the cap does need some debering.

My luck it will take a sh i t on me with me going to all this trouble

Strip Poker 388

iTrader: (6)

I bought the Moroso oil pump pick up for a 8 inch pan ,Looks like it going to work . The oil Keith E pick up was welded with about a 3/8 wide bead .I mocked them up the old one on one motor and the new on on the other. I noticed the old pick up was welded crooked Not bad thought . the old and new measure the same 7 11/16. the Keith E pan is 8 and had a slight v shape in the bottom ,This measurement is with out the one piece oil pan gasket . The gasket is .250 and a 1/16 and the should be ok . this is the same measurements as the it was before I tore it down.

Test fit the oil pan and fits around the Moroso Pick up. Picks show its real close to the same position . I still like the Keith E better but .He don't make them no more.

Strip Poker 388

iTrader: (6)

note

Strip Poker 388

iTrader: (6)

Here I have been playing in the combustion chambers , deshrouding ,smoothing out the factory machining,CC ing them,polishing.just making them maybe flow alittle better and no hot spots for detonation I did not want to move the wall back or moving to much metal so I would not have to cut the heads so much to get the cc,s back up. No machine work has been done yet ,Just magnfluxing . So after Marks special valve job there probably want be much blending to do .it has 4 extra radius in the cutters: for the exhaustD I have bought every thing new for them .Also went up to the 1.900 inconel for the blower.

I used some old spark plugs to cover the threads and make sure I don't cut to much off. making the thread of spark plug stick out in the chamber.detonation . I had some old inconel valves from the old Scarab blower motors , I cut them down to use when grinding on the chambers . so not to hit the seats and to get close.For grinding the inconel is harder and doesn't wear down as fast . they lasted thru all 16 chambers . they did get a little thin on the last set .

The last pick the marking shows its not flat.We will resurface all of them .Felpro said to a 50 ra for there new metal head gaskets.

Strip Poker 388

iTrader: (6)

Started on the exhaust tonight. tapered the guild boss some . The head bolt shoulder[seat] protrudes in the the runner . I smoothed it some , but someone borrowed my finger style mic,s so I could not measures how thin it was. Just did a quickie and polished it hoping for some smother flow .

I hate those casting lines

Whipple Charged

Tomcat,

You need to once again do some research . Your point that nobody wants to become experts on failure? As a mfg. of high performance products, we have to test everything to and beyond the failure point in order to make something better. How in the world do you know what a safety margin is if you haven't gotten to failure? You'll be happy to know that we spend a tremendous amount of time and money to produce some of the most reliable SC systems around.

Some thoughts for you:
A. If you think port injection = perfect distribution, and big IC=reliability, I'm glad your my competition. Those damn OEM guys must be retarded to purchase those darn expensive air/fuel mick jiggers and those odd sensors that actually measure cylinder pressure, what a waste of $$.

B. Hurting the two back pistons is because of air charge temp increase? Are you kidding me? Is that some type of knock towards our intercoolers? How about water flow to the back cylinders? What was water psi at the time of the failure? What was psi during normal operation? When measured with AVL cylinder pressure transducers, cylinders 3,4,5,6 have the most pressure and the hottest cylinder temps. When 7,8 fail, it's almost always related to water. But why would you know that, it didn't have the air coil from Ceasars Palace on top of the engine so it must be hot air!

The fact that your using an aluminum intercooler core for marine use is something you should maybe worry about instead of posting false information that has no merit. Maybe, since you've got the port injection and big IC thing figured out, you might have that corrosion and biofouling problem handled as well! I know Mercury Racing, Cummins, Catepillar, Detroit and us dummies love to waste money for cupronickel, but in our own madness, were giving the consumers a more reliable package. No matter what current coating you treat aluminum with, it will corrode and biofoul, something cupronickel does not. Also, just in case you didn't know, Cupronickel has over a 600Deg higher melting point than aluminum, adding to it's ability to live under the most extreme conditions and have less fatigue under constant varied temperatures and thermal expansion, vibration and varying pressure. Strapping a charge air cooler the size of Maine does not equal reliability. Please get your facts straghit when refering to our product.

Linster, any water that keeps coming over the transom and to the motor is bad news, for the SC but mainly the ignition. The distributor and coil do not react well to large amounts of water. The Nordic has a very low profile design and I could see this as a problem. Certainly improving the seal around the hatch and moving vents to the sides vs. the rear would help.

Mcollinstr,
The screw compressor compress's air to a minimum charge of 1.35 to 1 before it enter the intake. An "aftercooler" is certainly not required, but adds to the reliability of the packages. The cooling effect does not reduce all the heat, but certainly a large majority so an aftercooler can still remove additional heat. Ask anybody who has run our system, after a long run, there is always tremendous condensation on the compressor. We've done extensive research in the automotive industry in order to meet SULEV (Super Ultra Low Emissions Vehicles) which the marine industry have not even touched the surface of. While doing work for Toyota, we injecting X% of fuel through their SC package and reduce the emissions (NOx) over 30% which is direct effect of temp.

Thanks,
Dustin

Strip Poker 388

iTrader: (6)

All the post after Dustins today are missing

tomcat

My point is that port injection, and intercoolers of appropriate size for the job, are a more conservative approach to the design of a supercharging system. I know that doesn't help you because you are sellling screw compressors, and the nature of that beast led you to a throttle body injected design, with intercooler size limited by the size of the manifold and the need to stay under the hatch. Our design is not going to fit under some hatches but that's the compromise we chose.

Conservative design definitely leaves more room for safety and reliabilty and all the comments about cylinder pressure sensors and intercoolers the size of Ceasar's Palace, Maine etc. won't change that fact. If cylinder pressure sensors help you diagnose failures and improve your designs, that's great, you do what you have to do. But if you are trying to say that port injection and big intercoolers are bad that's a bit like saying white is black.

I understand that you release some water at the back of the heads on your system. That's fine if that's what you have to do, but I don't see everybody else doing that on their systems, or having these types of failures as a result.

The last two intercooler designs we did are available in both aluminum and cupronickel. Customer's choice and it's a price issue. They aren't necessary for many guys on fresh water. To say that they are more reliable because they melt at higher temperature is a bit of a stretch.

If the screw compressor reaches a pressure ratio of 1.35 within the rotors then you know that the air has been heated. The condensation on the case means that heat was removed by the evaporation of fuel. This does not mean that a screw compressor is some kind of refrigeration system. The cooling effect of fuel evaporation is available to all engines; it just happens later with port injection.

It is the nature of selling to emphasize your unique features and turn minuses into pluses, and I expect no less from you. I will confess to doing it myself when discussing low speed boost levels on a centrifugal blower. I tell my potential customers that it will put less stress on the drive, but a few still manage break their drives.

fountain333

hey strip did you flow those cylinder heads ??

Strip Poker 388

iTrader: (6)

Fountain333 yea look back in the post . I am cleaning them up now .I am not doing much to the stock cast iron heads ,There is not much reason to move much metal. I did the bowls and a little in the combustion chambers,very little in the intake runners . I polished the combustion chambers and the exhaust runners just for it to carbon up as soon as I crank it up , But its Petty The Whipples will make up for the heads I will measure the runners cc with a Bret tube then re flow them to see where were at on them . I don't expect much, but it cant hurt.Its just stock Chevy heads


Mark at Precision Marine has a new valve seat cuter for the exhaust that he has come up with that has 2 angles and 3 radius's that improve the flow over a standard Serdi valve job.

Put it this way, SERDI did not even know about the seat cutter

Rob

X-Rated30

Pardon me for asking, Rob, but is that a copy of Hustler on your bench in pic 3 of post #130? No wonder your engines aren't finished yet!!! Do you EVER take a day off from the porn?!?

BTW -- Goin to Mardi Gras?

cougarman

I was thinking the same thing, And the posters in the background.

I can see your incentive for rubbing and polishing and rubbing........................................... ...!!

But hey draw the line somewhere so you'll be on the water by spring!

Cougarman

Nordicflame

iTrader: (4)

Why did Merc go with port injectin on the new 600SC with a screw?

Just an honest question

Strip Poker 388

iTrader: (6)

Yea I just renewed my Sub I should be finished on the heads Wednesday. I have been out sick for 3 weeks and it had me down bad , I couldn't even work on the motors . Mark at Precision Marine talked to Dustin today and said there shipping the Blowers this week.

Cameron I wish I could make it .We Need to one year. We are going to the Car Show this weekend there In New Orleans.

Rob


Nordicheat not sure , But Merc is making there on Intake for the blowers.

amarket1

Cameron I wish I could make it .We Need to one year. We are going to the Car Show this weekend there In New Orleans.

Rob


Rob let me know what day you are comming in and maybe we can hook up.

Strip Poker 388

iTrader: (6)

Sunday. PM me

rmbuilder

Rob,
What would the driving time be from Larry Meaux's dyno facility and the car show?
Bob

Strip Poker 388

iTrader: (6)

Prob about a 1 hour maybe 1 1/2 .Its all Highway.Its a ISCA 5 A show. Its not a big as Huston show but worth going to and there's usually some good scenery there [Girls]

Bob Have ya been to Larry's before ? He was surrounded by corn fields the last time I was down there

Rob

rmbuilder

Rob,
This would be my first time at his facility. We have some cam/valve train parts being dyno tested there this weekend and I am trying schedule flights. Wanted to know if there would be time to make the show if you were there.
Bob

Strip Poker 388

iTrader: (6)

I was wrong on the time .Aftermarket told me Its a little farther than 1 hour drive .Don't get your hopes on the shop . They last time I was there [awhile] it was not much to it . But he [Larry makes up for it!!] I have been to a few different Dyno shops and he is the smartest person I have ever met .But I am just some old Mississippi boy When I was there he was Dynoing a motor for Jegs.



A friend of mine that just won the NHRA super stock championship use to use him. He is now using another shop in La, Dyno only. The more I hear there is more people in La that have Dynos that you can believe . Not just some Joe Blow that can afford a Dyno . People that can put it to use.I get the news letter from Super Flow and was surprised at people I have never heard of from there

Talking to Mark at Precision Marine in New Orleans they all end up knowing each other , and sounds like they all grew up together.


Bob Give ya something funny we use to do. A have buddy that use to have a speed shop here and he had a stuffed Squirrel on the counter........When he waited on a customer that was a squirrel he would put it on the counter in front of them . they would never get it


I think you will be impressed with Larry and you might also consider Mark at Precision and he knows more about this Dodge guy thats Dynoing the Super Stock Motors. These super stock guys are insane!!

Bob I would like to talk to ya .Pm me your # when ya get a chance .

Rob

rmbuilder

Rob,
After trying all day Fri to make connections to Lake Charles, the 24” of snow we had canceled any chance of making it down. I was able to upload all the Superflow files direct from Larry so it was like being there, without the crawfish. Having Larry do all the pulls was instrumental in finding much of the power left in the tuning of the package. His attention to detail in calibration, correction factors, accuracy, and repeatability made all the difference. I was told his dyno is conservative with numbers and his emphasis is on accurate data related to incremental improvement. After the first session on 1/9 (14 pulls) the decision was made to make some changes in carb, intake, and the HP 500 lifters. Second session 2 weeks later was baseline against the first, then the changes were made with very significant improvements of 40+ hp over what the engine would have made had it just gone in the boat. It points how important taking it is to take any package to the dyno, especially with an operator like Larry. I would like to talk to Mark at Precision. Thanks for the tip.Those Super Stock (“square lobe”) guys make huge power especially in a rules limited class.
Bob

Strip Poker 388

iTrader: (6)

Yea yall been having some bad weather up there .Bob are ya finished with the engine package your working on? or still doing R&D When I was there last we made 15 pulls in one day .He hooked it up to the dyno and we did all the wrenching . We tuned 75 hp extra of a 350ci . Thats a lot of pulls in one day .Yea he will tell ya his Dyno is Conservative , unlike the other guys that play with the correction factors or in the back of there control panel.Yea These super stock guys think there info is top secret stuff. the one here claims 6 hp just in the oil pump I also am finding out they bend the rules some to get the edge .there estimating 650-675 out of the 327,they want tell.I think Larry is keeping up with the guys still . He use to be the Top head porter awhile back.Good luck on your motor program.Give us some detail if ya get a chance.

Rob

Strip Poker 388

iTrader: (6)

Ck this out
I got to playing with the new oil pumps and looked at the old ones again . look what I found They shimed the spring with a STAR washer ,prob about .025 thick .Why not use a larger diamenter and a stainless flat washer . being this small and cheep It might of fell out or broke.


I also cked the old oil pump pick up tube it was not level with the oil pan rails . so it was welded on crooked.

Strip Poker 388

iTrader: (6)

I got the new pumps in.I could not help it .I had to take them apart and clean them up , there was some casting flask so I de burred them, polished the throats sanded off the casting lines , sanded the gears that had some slight stuff on them . In the body where they were made it had some chatter from there cutter.I guess they all come that way , the old ones had it to.

I mocked it up for the pick up tube .Can ya believe the Moroso pick up tube came with sae bolts not metric . so I had to get some metric bolts for the tube bracket. Also remember the 2 pick ups were made different . I guess they were welded off , crooked gig if they use one , so one took a different spacer to get them level with the oil pan . I ll take them and still get then tig welded . not like the old ones with a 3/8ths wide weld bead

Do ya think I spent to much time on the oil pumps

Rob

Strip Poker 388

iTrader: (6)

I use to do some R&D for FelPro when the were coming out with the Loc Wire head gasket on the Chevy 350ci . Lots of NOS we never hurt a gasket. Being that I still got my connection with My buddy at Fel Pro so I get free gaskets , It helps alot and I dont abuse the friendship with my buddy there.

With my block being already cut some . it was out when I tore them down so I had to cut them .010 to clean them up and they had never been square decked So that means the piston is going to be around .010 out of the hole the deck height will be 8.770. so I had to go to the MLS head gasket because they don't make a thicker gasket in the 4.500 bore . The standard head gasket is .039 compressed so it would of been close . I did not want to cut 10 off the pistons and they say like this it will make more power with the squish , I debured the edge of the piston incass of detonation.The new Fel Pro gasket # 1075-1 is .053 thick and fits the 4.500 or bigger bore it has a compressed volume of 14.5 cc's.this will give me .014 extra clearance.it will help on the cr. also.i was told I needed to go with these gasket with the blowers anyway . but I have never had a head gasket prob on my motors .Cant hurt and it worked out for the better..

Ck out the directions they cam in a was paper ,sealed, between card board and sealed again and in cardboard again.

they want the surf slick
do not touch,no finger prints
not dust or trash on it


The other thiner MLS is a #1075 with a .041 thickness and a 11.2 compressed voul.

Strip Poker 388

iTrader: (6)

there riveted . the surface feels kinda rubbery. you can see the compression ring in between the layers . Felpro said that Nascar has been using them for a while . this is a lot easer that cutting the groves in the head for the lock wire gaskets . Next time I go into the Chevelle and Camaro I will try some of these.

I hope some of this info helps some of ya one day

Rob

Strip Poker 388

iTrader: (6)

I did a little deburing on the blocks about 4 hours each Before I had it machined . In the main web area I took a flat file to all the edges and a round file to the journal edges .no sharp edges anywhere .On the main caps I took a flat file to the surface where the bolts seat and the bottom of the main caps and the block surface where the main cap sit.making sure there is no high spots and any burs sticking up . also the pan rails for high spots . In the cam area there was some casting flash I sanded them and the pan rails as much as I could where the oil runs down the inside . where the oil pump flows thru the main cap in smoothed and inside the oil filter boss passages I re taped all the holes . On the outside of the block I removed all the casting lines and imperfections and smoothed all the sharp edges.

the align bore looked good and was in speck . We sq decked it and the surface is a 50 ra, Would of been smoother if I knew I was getting the MLS gaskets , but its in speck . I will do the heads smother.the bores were pretty good i think it was plate honed the first time they bored it.Piston to cylinder wall clearance is going to be around 6.5.

Bad news one block is 60 over .and it had a sleeve in that block also.I was told about the sleeve before I bought the boat but not the bore. there telling me that the extra cubes should NOT make over 10-20hp and if this one makes more it will pull on the other and the other will pull this one down so should equal out . nothing i can do about it now.there wasn't any rpm difference in them before .oh well

Strip Poker 388

iTrader: (6)

I did some work in the lifter vally , debur and oil drain back help.

some cross hatch

Strip Poker 388

iTrader: (6)

I finished playing with the heads and there getting surfaced and valve job so I can ck the combustion chambers cc's.I did not move much metal in there .so I hope we don't have to cut much . Ill cc them and mock it up to ck the intake alignment angels .It should not be to far because we only cut the deck 10 and the worst head was 6 out so should be about 10 there .The heads dont look like they been cut much. I hope I don't have to cut the heads intake surface I am waiting on the whipple Intake now.He was putting a special kit to gether with the bigger innercooler and leaving out the fuel system and no fuel cooler stuff. I was told they may be some work that needs to be done to the runners on it. sometimes the casting is ruff?will see

I am going to re flow them to see what difference it made But the special valve job that Mark at Precision Marine does should make some difference also. Its a special cuter he has special made for him

i have some more picks of the heads i ll post , the exhaust and combustion chambers was mirror finished
Rob

KAAMA

iTrader: (1)

Wow----your engines echo many of the same kind of multiple issues my engines had when they came back from a careless builder I trusted in Charlotte, NC this past year. Lot's of things done cheaply, and carelessly just to get them out the door. When the decks on my engines were cut to zero deck heigth the head gaskets were beginning to leak into the cylinders because the turkey who square decked the blocks cut them too roughly. I had to have the decks recut to correct this and by that time the pistons were sticking out above the decks by 3-4 thousandths. We now have to use a thicker Ferrea head gasket. They also installed too small of a head gasket on each bank of each block. My rods weren't reconditioned at all as I was told they were and all of the small ends were out of round and some of the rods were galled-----they were assembled that way!!! No balancing either. The list goes on and on. My engines were done by some guys who say they DOUBLE and TRIPPLE check everything before it goes out the door to make sure everything is right. Anyway, it's a good thing that you pulled them down when you did. Heck, I didn't even get my engines in the boat---but then it's a good thing that I didn't because the way they were built they wouldn't have lasted long at all. Thankfully, I caught it all before I installed my engines in the boat---whew! Like you, I found several suprises, and had to have corrective action done on several of the machine steps that were either done or supposedly done by these guys. What a fippin' joke!

Anyway, it sounds like you;re on the right track and headed in the right direction with your engines now. At least you can have peace of mind in knowing exactly what you have now, and how things were done. Try and have fun this summer!

Strip Poker 388

iTrader: (6)

The twetty bird been singing to you too

Kaama hows your engine build going ?

Rob

Lmarth

Kaama- you don't understand. The engine builder DID double and triple check everything before the motors went out the door. They double and triple checked that the check or credit card were good!

Strip Poker 388

iTrader: (6)

Well I am making some head way now . Waiting on the maching shop and ordered a new Dial Bore gage piston sleave installer. etc . Just waiting Whipples came in so I can ck the intake face angle before we put the head together.Also be waiting on Crane lifters since Nov 1st just got then on the 15th of Feb



Oil galley plugs . The motor came with 2 with holes in it for oiling the timming chain, some say leave it out with the new style chain , I put just one in , figured with the new style oil pump and being a HV should be ok?

Strip Poker 388

iTrader: (6)

The block honed out good no low spots and came up with a .0065 piston to wall clearance . I gaped the top ring at .025 and the 2nd at .030.

Strip Poker 388

iTrader: (6)

Crank

Strip Poker 388

iTrader: (6)

Installed the cam straight up which is 107.I am using the cloyds hex a just , it made degreeing the cam real easy.Ck out the piston stop I made out of angle aluminum . it worked out pretty good . I had bought one from Tivia and when you hit the stop it would flex.This one is stiff.

I bought the Crane 168741 it is one step above the factory cam which is a 169621

The 741 cam #'s are 610-632 lift and 236-244 dur. cut on a 112 and it has 16 degrees of over lap . I am kinda of worried about that.Maybe be better on the pump gas?. the stock cam has 7 degree of overlap.A custom cam would of been better Bob RMBuilder said where leaving some HP on the table .But where going to be pushing it on the outdrives anyway .

Strip Poker 388

iTrader: (6)

This is the new style cam retaining plate .Looks like its a polished stainless steel piece . The cam had .0055 end play with the timing gear installed.