? about fuel injecting large blower motors ..
03-18-2004 | 06:25 PM
#1
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From: Flemington, N.J. U.S.A
? about fuel injecting large blower motors ..
Say someone had 588" 1000hp motors with 8-71 blowers and dual dominator carbs ...
WHat if they wanted to use mechanical fuel injection and get rid of the carbs ? I am talking about the race type setups on drag cars etc. Such as the "Bird" catcher style scoop with injector plates under it . I would think that they would be easier to tune then dual dominators . Any one use these or no who to talk to about this set up ?
WHat if they wanted to use mechanical fuel injection and get rid of the carbs ? I am talking about the race type setups on drag cars etc. Such as the "Bird" catcher style scoop with injector plates under it . I would think that they would be easier to tune then dual dominators . Any one use these or no who to talk to about this set up ?
03-18-2004 | 08:18 PM
#2
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From: tn
I've messed with mechanical injection on alcolhol sprint cars, drag bikes, and a blown outboard.
Pretty simple stuff. You just put different size pills in the return line to restrict it and richen it up. Bigger pills to lean it out. You can also mess with injector sizes and pump drive ratios.
Gas is more finicky than alcohol, but the principle is the same. Most setups have hi and low speed pills (determined by the fuel valve) but I hear there are three stage ones also.
Pretty simple stuff. You just put different size pills in the return line to restrict it and richen it up. Bigger pills to lean it out. You can also mess with injector sizes and pump drive ratios.
Gas is more finicky than alcohol, but the principle is the same. Most setups have hi and low speed pills (determined by the fuel valve) but I hear there are three stage ones also.
03-18-2004 | 09:17 PM
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From: Flemington, N.J. U.S.A
Thanks , I am alittle familiar with it from being around modified pulling tractors and trucks . They were alcohol also . Thats what I herd that gas is a little tuffer to calibrate . I wonder how it will run all through the rpm range but mostly cruise speed and idling in gear ?
It would sure be nice to just change 2 pills instead of messing with 16 idle screws !!
Problem for me is (in my opinion ) ,I am about 2,000 +feet above sea level and if I tune it here on the trailer it runs fine . Now when I get to the shore at sea level it won't run for crap ! And tuning it at the ramp is not my idea of a day on the water ! With injection I could have 1 pill for home and one for the water .
I know someone will say go EFI. But that is out of my budget and the last thing I want to hear , out in the middle of the ocean is , "One of the sensors is bad !"
I also want to know about fuel delivery . I know they run belt driven pumps . IS it possible to use a mechanical ,like a holley pump or even an electric pump ? Thanks for the info , Joe
It would sure be nice to just change 2 pills instead of messing with 16 idle screws !!
Problem for me is (in my opinion ) ,I am about 2,000 +feet above sea level and if I tune it here on the trailer it runs fine . Now when I get to the shore at sea level it won't run for crap ! And tuning it at the ramp is not my idea of a day on the water ! With injection I could have 1 pill for home and one for the water . I know someone will say go EFI. But that is out of my budget and the last thing I want to hear , out in the middle of the ocean is , "One of the sensors is bad !"
I also want to know about fuel delivery . I know they run belt driven pumps . IS it possible to use a mechanical ,like a holley pump or even an electric pump ? Thanks for the info , Joe
Last edited by boot; 03-18-2004 at 09:20 PM.
03-19-2004 | 05:27 AM
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From: BRIDGEWATER MA.
03-19-2004 | 08:52 AM
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From: tn
No. A mechanical FI pump is required. Gotta be directly driven off the crank and gotta be a positive displacement pump.
Different beast than a diesel. Spark motors have to offer a stoich mxture at all speeds and throttle positions appropriate to the demand. Diesel just adds or subtracts fuel to vary engine output - very effective, but not applicable to spark motors.
EFI not a bad choice for what you wanna do. You can set it up to use a minimum or maximum amount of sensors. If you have a laptop you can set it up on a high altitude map and a sea level map and you can even program it to run with as few sensors as throttle position and manifold pressure (MAP).
BUT, I've seen mechanical injectors on street rods (gasoline) that appeared to run great.
Ziploc of pills for high alt. Ziploc of pills for sea level. Sounds like a good idea.
Different beast than a diesel. Spark motors have to offer a stoich mxture at all speeds and throttle positions appropriate to the demand. Diesel just adds or subtracts fuel to vary engine output - very effective, but not applicable to spark motors.
EFI not a bad choice for what you wanna do. You can set it up to use a minimum or maximum amount of sensors. If you have a laptop you can set it up on a high altitude map and a sea level map and you can even program it to run with as few sensors as throttle position and manifold pressure (MAP).
BUT, I've seen mechanical injectors on street rods (gasoline) that appeared to run great.
Ziploc of pills for high alt. Ziploc of pills for sea level. Sounds like a good idea.
03-19-2004 | 10:19 AM
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From: Cypress, TX
Originally posted by mcollinstn
No. A mechanical FI pump is required. Gotta be directly driven off the crank and gotta be a positive displacement pump.
Different beast than a diesel. Spark motors have to offer a stoich mxture at all speeds and throttle positions appropriate to the demand. Diesel just adds or subtracts fuel to vary engine output - very effective, but not applicable to spark motors.
EFI not a bad choice for what you wanna do. You can set it up to use a minimum or maximum amount of sensors. If you have a laptop you can set it up on a high altitude map and a sea level map and you can even program it to run with as few sensors as throttle position and manifold pressure (MAP).
BUT, I've seen mechanical injectors on street rods (gasoline) that appeared to run great.
Ziploc of pills for high alt. Ziploc of pills for sea level. Sounds like a good idea.
No. A mechanical FI pump is required. Gotta be directly driven off the crank and gotta be a positive displacement pump.
Different beast than a diesel. Spark motors have to offer a stoich mxture at all speeds and throttle positions appropriate to the demand. Diesel just adds or subtracts fuel to vary engine output - very effective, but not applicable to spark motors.
EFI not a bad choice for what you wanna do. You can set it up to use a minimum or maximum amount of sensors. If you have a laptop you can set it up on a high altitude map and a sea level map and you can even program it to run with as few sensors as throttle position and manifold pressure (MAP).
BUT, I've seen mechanical injectors on street rods (gasoline) that appeared to run great.
Ziploc of pills for high alt. Ziploc of pills for sea level. Sounds like a good idea.
Roby
04-02-2004 | 07:01 AM
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From: tn
Roby
MAP is pretty much required on EFI.
MAF is a "plus".
Most basemaps will be based on MAP and you'll pretty much be programming from scratch to build a system that uses MAF with no MAP.
Don't see any reason why you couldn't do it though, although I will say that I also don't see any reason why you'd benefit from doing so.
MAP, TPS, coolant temp, knock sensor, and RPM are the usual assortment of required INPUTS. Additional inputs would be O2, MAF, ambient baro, ambient temp, etc. -
boot,
EFI is far more flexible and tuneable than mechanical. No reason mechanical can't be made to work effectively for you though. Just different.
MAP is pretty much required on EFI.
MAF is a "plus".
Most basemaps will be based on MAP and you'll pretty much be programming from scratch to build a system that uses MAF with no MAP.
Don't see any reason why you couldn't do it though, although I will say that I also don't see any reason why you'd benefit from doing so.
MAP, TPS, coolant temp, knock sensor, and RPM are the usual assortment of required INPUTS. Additional inputs would be O2, MAF, ambient baro, ambient temp, etc. -
boot,
EFI is far more flexible and tuneable than mechanical. No reason mechanical can't be made to work effectively for you though. Just different.
04-02-2004 | 10:44 AM
#10
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Posts: 1,632
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From: Argyle, TX
Boot here are some links for the efi kits. I am in the process of doing the same set up as the bds efi's in the next few weeks to my plants. www.blowerdriveservice.com www.chiefengines.com www.force-efi.com www.hilborninjection.com www.kinsler.com www.koehlerinjection.com www.racecrafters.biz
Hope these help!
Hope these help!
