318 Skater prop testing and continued dial in.
 

Hello Gentlemen, I thought Id start a new thread if anybody wants to follow on any changes I make prop or set up wise in the future toward dialing more speed on my rig being that the boat has been delivered. I spoke to Dave Dewald on the phone in ref to props. Being that I need a set of back ups I figured I might as well work with him and spend money on a set that may do better than what I have now. He currently has a couple sets of 5 blade cleavers he has casted with Bravo style hubs that are 33 and 34 pitch with 21 to 23 degree rake. We had spoken a while ago in ref to my current props and I provided him any info he asked for. He said today that they should be ready in a few weeks which works well for me as I won't be doing much boating until April but will need the back ups once the season gets going. Everybody I have spoken to thinks the boat would do better with more rake in the props as it requires a decent amount of trim to carry the bow. We will see what happens and he can tune them to whatever we feel is necessary. None of the other props Merc had to offer worked very well. Seems to need 5 blades to run to my liking. I will keep everyone posted and any help you can give me would be greatly appreciated. Probably won't post any new info on here again for a month so don't think I forgot. Steve.

Nice , keep us posted ,

What is top everyday " half tank & 2 or 3 in boat plus cooler " speed now ? vs what you are looking for with new prop setup ?

Awesome ride :)

Hey Mike, Just put her in the water on Wed Haven't had a chance to run her flat out here yet. I did run her up the Toms River. It was me and my girl and full tanks 220 gallons roughly 1300lbs of fuel. We hit 106 pretty quickly and still climbing. Ran out of room and had to back off. Im new first time running her alone. Trim was off a bit one motor was 42% turning 6750rpm and the other about 38% at 6500. Im pretty sure I could have gotten 108 or 109 out of her which I feel wasn't too bad with 1300lbs of fuel and two people. Currently takes a lot of trim to get her running top end but Im hoping to fix that in time. Boat needs set back and more rake in the props. Nose runs higher than I would like and thats fine for now. This has been posted already but she ran 114mph at Mercury in glass flat fresh water with about a half tank and one person. Im looking forward to working with Dewald. Don't know if he can do better but his track record is awesome and like I said I need a second set of props anyway. Why waste my money buying a basic set of bravos.

Just for the record 27% trim is with the propshafts running flat with the bottom of the boat so 42% is 17% positive which it ran its best speed at for three weeks at Merc Racing.

Max top speed lite on fuel and only one person in the boat is a great # to talk about but it's not a every day go boating # , So personally I would not set the boat up for the one time top speed # , I would set it up for everyday riding with some mid range punch :) But thats just me , 105 to 110 would be nice :) everyday #'s with people and fuel ,
Have fun with that boat , look's like a head turner

The boat will hit 114mph with half tank. Thats 100 gallons of fuel. It turned 111mph with me and Merc guy in boat with 100 gallons of fuel. That 114 it hit all the time at Merc Racing. It is a consistent number not a one time deal. It will vary depending on weight as most boats will especially outboards. But its still a top end number and the best it has run so far. It hit 98mph with 6 guys and full tanks at Merc Racing. Thats 6 adults and 1300lbs of fuel. That number is great for my set up and it was getting 1.75 mpg. If it had 300xss on it you probably wouldn't see 90mph I'm guessing. Maybe 85 with that much weight.

That is Awesome #s

Steve
Refresh our memory what pitch/diameter/rake are the Mercury props you are running?
You mentioned in one of the posts that the bow is higher than your liking. Running a higher rake propeller will only make that worse not better.

Hey Ron, Merc props are 5 blade 33 pitch cleavers 15 dia 15 degree rake. Yea I know with more rake the bow will carry better and I won't need so much trim to keep it up. I could direct the force of the props further back and not have them directing upward so much. Is that not correct. Dave felt the same way and may pick up a few mph. At least it could give me a better running attitude.

How many miles do you run in a day of boating? I torture my myself every trip trying to carry as little fuel as possible. 40 gallons a side is what I carry. My Skater is a 32' Classic with 300X motors. I average about 2 miles per gallon. The few times I fill mine is running Key Largo to Key West or Long Island sound running to Block Island.
I would think your 400's would be very efficient motors. Once you figure out the range your boat has I would leave the extra fuel at the gas dock.
For the record I run out of fuel about once a year. Lol it Always happens when we add a dinner stop to a long day of boating.

Well this photo was made taking out the kids for a high speed run on tanks I swore the gauges were not accurate. 1.0 Gals remaining was accurate lol. We lost port two miles back and as I predicted we lost the starboard 75 yards from my dock and the wind was of course blowing us into the bank. The only thing worse than being pulled in by a party barge would have been the Foutain that runs on our lake:lolhit:

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I now keep plenty of fuel onboard and don't worry about a couple of MPHs. Unless I know I'm going to need them!:evilb:

It will be an interesting outcome if the "CUSTOM" built merc props made specifically for your Skater become your back-ups as they under perform to the Dewald's,

I am not sure how the aero and hydrodynaics of your boat differ from the 28's ( including CG) but the Dewald profile is the go-to prop for them - Merc's work / Dewald's perform!

Congrat's on getting your baby into the water....very long time coming!

Hey Hydro, The Bay by me is 35 miles long with a few rivers you can cruise up a few miles. As Sam said Im not worried about losing the top end that much. I can run with my girlfriend and me around 108mph with full tanks. (220 gallons). I would normally not carry that much but I didn't feel like going back to gas dock for a while. Thats 1300lbs of fuel. I plan on normally filling up to half tanks. About 60 to 70 gallons a side. About 700 to 800lbs. I should be able to run around 110 to 112mph with the two of us which will be the normal passenger load 90% of the time. As others have said most of my time will be spent between 80 to 90mph. Like I stated earlier the boat ran full tanks 6 guys at 98mph and was getting 1.75 mpg. Thats good enough for me.

Steve - Love the numbers you are getting, and really love the great pictures of your boat in the Speed On The Water print magazine! :whistle:

Hey Guys, Haven't forgot about this info thread but the weather has been terrible so far this Spring. Just getting tolerable here last week or so. Rained it seemed like for a whole month. Still have to get in touch with Dewald for props he has been working on. Will do that soon. Have been out for a few rides and it seems like the motors may be loosening up a bit. Is that possible. I haven't run her alone yet but have ran some wide open missions a few times. Was out the other day with 4 people. Me my girlfriend my neighbor(300pounds) and his wife(at 150pounds) and about 90 gallons of fuel. Almost a half tank and Saint Ruth got to 110, 111mph. That last 5 mph takes a while but she slowly kept climbing to just over 110 and may have had a tiny bit left to squeak out but not much.. I thought that was pretty good with all the people and all. Plus I have all my bumpers anchor and other supplies on board. I felt that if we saw 106 with that weight it would have been great. It was cool to be able to bring the four of us and still hit that mark. Any way thats all I have for now. I should have more stuff like videos now that weather is getting better.

those 400R's are beginning to look more and more appealing!! nice numbers steve!

Hey La, I love the motors but thats me and I have nothing else to compare them to really. Went for a ride in Sam's boat and it was beautiful and fast but I really didn't pay that much attention to the motors. I know mine are much smoother. The other day when I was out I got up on plane and pushed the throttles all the way forward and kept popping the trim up to see how acceleration really is. The boat pulls pretty hard all the way over 105mph. Now "Pretty Hard" is a term open for interpretation. I haven't been in a big I/O boat and I bet they pull very hard. Unless you ride in a 400 boat you'll never know. I do know that it pulls much harder than my 21 Checkmate with merc 250ProXS. That was light too. 2000lbs dry with motor and it ran hard. Whoever puts themselves in the spot of upgrading to the 400s has to make that decision for themselves whether its worth it or not. For some it may work and others it may not. With a fresh build I can't imagine not doing it. The fact that it ran 111mph with 85 gallons and 4 people aboard seemed very good to me. Also spoke to Dave Dewald earlier today and he is sending me a set of props tomorrow so I will have some additional info to post soon. Steve.

111 with 4 onboard and that much fuel is MORE than respectable!

Great runs Steve. Looking forward to what Dave does with the props. I know he has sent a bunch of stuff over to X Cat. I am sure we will see improvements through out their season.
Also looking forward to seeing Bill's 308 run soon.
I have not had 4 people in mine but have seen 108 down here in fresh water 2 people and 60 gallons on board.
Ran out of prop. I am also waiting for some Dewalds to keep testing.
We need some videos!!!!!!

Ron sorry I missed your call today, talk tomorrow. Johny is testing my boat on Tuesday next week, he said he has props comming from mercury to test. ? we will see

Hey Ron, He is sending me a set of 33 pitch 15.5 dia and 20 degree rake. I think thats the rake. Bravo style hub I believe. In talking we felt the stern needed a bit more lift and then the additional rake would level out the ride attitude better. He said they ran on the X Cat boats very well. We will see. Im curious about the Diameter but we can always take some off. Im hoping with the rake I won't need as much trim. When I had the boat out of the water about a week ago I had a chance to look at the trim angles I was running. Get on plane at about 12% thats tucked in a bit. I run when on plane at 27% which has the propshaft level with the bottom of the boat. when I get up around 80-85 I bump up to about 30% and Running hard up over 40%. Maybe 43 44 or so. Before I looked at it I had the feeling the trim angle was very steep but after seeing it on the trailer and having Danny Crank run the trim up and down to show me what the different angles looked like it really is not that much positive trim. Its just a bit higher than level. Nothing like I thought it was gonna be. When the boat is running hard on plane with the nose up a bit and the trim is say 44% the propshaft is pretty close to running level with the water line maybe a hair positive. Sounds like your rig is running great. Congrats on all your hard work. She's awesome.

Yea the Mercury electronic indicators can be deceiving. I would make a cheat sheet to see where the percentages in regards to the bottom until you get it memorized. I also use the mechanicals and have marks on them with a sharpie as it stinks getting old!!!!!!

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Hey guys received my set of props from Dave Dewald yesterday. They are 15 inch Diameter thought they were 15.25 but spoke to him today to verify. 33 pitch and 20 degree Rake. In having a few conversations with Dave and giving him the info he needed he felt the bravo style hub would help give the stern a bit more lift and with more rake( my current props are 15 degree) at 20 degrees it would carry the bow better and may not need as much trim and may gain a few when all is said and done. Have to go to Florida this week be home on Thursday. Probably swap them out that next week when I get home. Dave stated that they ran well on the X Cat boats. Around 119 mph and they are propped more for acceleration than total top end. The fact that they ran that number is very encouraging as not much else has a record of running well on these new motors with their larger gear cases. As I have been running my rig a handful of times I have come to understand that although we all focus on the top end number the speed focus is actually more important in the midrange/cruising speed. I have run mostly 80 to 95mph. The top end number is important as it reflects what your cruising speed can be without totally killing your motors all the time. I liked my recent top end run of111mph number with 4 people and 85 gallons of gas as thats more what my load would be under every day use. Any way here are a couple pics of my new wheels. Steve.

Made it to Fla safe. Cant wait to get home to slap on my Dewalds and see how she runs. I know its expecting a lot for a good run the first time out but I just want to get similar performance with respect to what I have now. They look really cool anyway. Ha

You are the most patient person I think I have ever met!

First you miss the end of your season after your build was complete and now you run to Florida just as UPS delivers your Dewalds:lolhit:

Yea its crushing me Sam. Im hoping to get half way decent numbers. Nothing spectacular from them at first. Its ok if the prop Gods help out. I figure it pushed the X Cats very well and thats encouraging considering most everything else besides the Merc 5 blades haven't worked on these big goofy gear cases. I saw somewhere that those boats are about 4000lbs .They're really set up for acceleration so I would imagine they're underpropped and still up at 119mph. You never know. Maybe right out of the box. He had all my info in mind while he was working them. Dale likes them too so thats a plus.

five blades huh. you prop gooreauxs help me out with the 5 vs 4 differences.

Hey Craig, Right? Sorry bad with names. When Merc had my rig no 4 blade they tested ran well at all. The 5 blade cleavers they made ran head and shoulders above anything else. I dont know why. Could be the size of the bigger gear case? When discussing it with Dave Dewald back months ago he felt Because of what info we had from previous tests we should just stick with 5 Blades. Also the props he sent me are same as ones that have run on some of the X Cat boats with the ROS motors and he got positive feedback about them. They also probably run smoother and may put less stress on the lower gear cases but I'm not sure. I get home tomorrow but weather is iffy. Probably change out props this coming week and run them for a while. They have more rake than my Mercs. Don't know if that will be better or take too much horsepower to take advantage of. They are also Bravo hubs style which he felt the boat could use a bit more lift in the stern. We will see. Im sure ill have to have them tweaked if they run well anyway. You never know they may be fine but thats not usually the case the first time around.

So what happened with the desalts

When I go to the fuel dock I generally fill her up. My tanks are 110 gallons a side. Im estimating I can get about 95 gallons in each tank. I can get to 110mph with 4 people so far any day. Thats good enough for me. Im generally getting about 2 miles to the gallon I'm finding. I run 80 to 85 mph cruise but that always runs up to 100 or so. Yesterday I was cruising at 100mph at 6000 rpm for 8 to 10 miles or so. Love it. I hate running out of gas. If I can get to that 110 number pretty much any time Ill take the extra weight. Being that I have no rub rail Getting gas is kind of a pain in the ass right now as Im new at it and it scares me about getting all scratched up. So far Ive been very careful and its worked out for me. Went out for the first time alone yesterday but it was very windy. Tried some top end runs. I was running up the Toms River and was going with the wind as going against it would have been murder. My rig requires some positive trim to really unlock the hull to run and as I kept tapping up the trim where I knew I was approaching a no no range the front started to lift on me. Was running up through 112mph. It was very controlled as I just pulled the trim back down and the boat settled. It gave my heart a slight flutter but now I know what Im looking for. After that I ran out of room and my Butt was so tight I decided to stay calm the rest of the day. Ha. I figure my range as 2 miles per gallon to be safe. At say 180 gallons I can go 300 plus miles with a lot of room to spare.

The Dewalds Have not gotten on my boat yet. The weather has been terrible here and the Marina I took delivery thru is very backed up. I have also been going back and forth to help out with my parents as they are needing that now. Im trying but its been tuff.

I'll probably be breaking my 28 in next week .... I could exercise those props for you ..... Just sayin. ;-)

Ok so I finally ran the Dewalds Earlier today. Just went out for a quick spin to see how they felt. I currently have full tanks in the boat of at least 200 gallons thats a lot of weight with me and my girlfriend. The props are 15 dia 33 pitch and 20 rake. Like I said wasn't looking for crazy top end numbers. Did run her wide open and she reached 106mph on the limiters. I spoke to Dave Dewald and he suggested dropping the motors bit which I thought about also cause slip is a bit high. We talked about making a set of 34 pitch props everything else remaining the same. This he felt would get me where I and the motors need to be. Probably would be smarter to drop the motors but I really want to find a second set of props that will run where my current props run if not better. When I have to change my props I don't want to get involved with yanking the boat and readjusting the engine heights if I don't have to. He is gonna make me a set of 34s and we will see how they run. The current ones I have ran in line with my Merc props all thru the midrange. Very nice no vibration and a bit quieter on the low end. I figured why wait to run with a lighter load if Im already on the limiters and he felt the 34s would accomplish the same thing. Again I don't have a tow vehicle to drag my rig out of the water with and I don't want to have to wait on the marina to do it for me as that could take more time than I want to wait. Who knows how the 33s would run with a bit more setback but Im not doing that to find out till next season. have my fingers crossed for these 34s. What do you think.

Steve,
I am no expert but if you are on the limiters and are only going up 1" in pitch that is only about 200rpm drop.
With a light load that will not be enough. My questions are:
1) Aren't the Merc cleavers 6 blade?
2). I believe they are also a bit bigger diameter?

Adding more set back will change the X dimension also. If you are sending these back you should let Bill know and have him try them. Since he has the notch and see what the difference is. It would provide valuable information in finding out what these boats need. The more we all test the better the result for everyone. Hell I wouldn't mind trying something wild with some big pitch props either. Ya never know what can happen.

Hey Ron, The Mercs are 5 Blades and they are 15 dia. Same as the Dewalds. The rake is 20 degrees in the Dewalds. I think if I drop the motors a bit they will be fine. My Merc props ran the same top end when they were at 1and 3/4 above the bottom as 2. They left them at 2 inches because they felt acceleration was better. Dave swore that If I dropped them a bit the slip would improve and I would be where the Mercs Basically are. I think slip was about 12 or 14 now. Im gonna try them at 34 pitch and see what happens. Ill probably keep them as they should be close to the Mercs. A good back up for now. Probably put some set back in the motors this winter for next year and ill get a new set if I have to. Our friends boat ran well with less pitch but he has a lot more setback then I have. I feel that may be the cause of my excessive trim problem and having the bow ride higher than I would like. Im gonna try the motors a 1 and 3/4 next time it goes into the marina. Who knows I maybe on the limiters with the 34s. Won't know till I try them. I also talked to Bill today. I think Im gonna send these right to him instead of back to Dewald first to cut out the middleman. He wants them anyway they come to him. He's talking to Dave to see if thats OK.

Spoke with Dave Dewald today. We decided I would send my current props to Billy as he needs a set for his new Classic deck 400R conversion set up. New props Dave is making for me will actually have a 15.25 diameter instead of 15. They can always be taken down to 15 inches If they don't work out well. Because of my engine height he felt that being I don't want to drop the motors if I have to switch the props any time the additional diameter wouldn't hurt. So they will be 34 pitch 15.25 dia and 20 degree rake. Like I said before I may drop the motors a bit any way but I want to see how they run first.

Steve
That makes more sense to me. What you guys were saying before was not going to work for you.
Looking forward to Bill's progress also.

Nastybug, Were you down by LBI this past weekend ?? If it was, The boat looked awesome going by my house !!!! Also those 400's sound great..

Hey Toxic. I think I was. Go down there on rides quite often as I spent my Summers as a kid in LBI at Harvey Cedars. Ran down under the bridge by Hochstraser Marina. I still have friends down there that live on the bay. Thanx for the kind words about the boat. Im enjoying the hell out of her. Where do you live and do you ever make it up by me in Toms River. I live on the water off Silver Bay. Its about 3 miles above the Bridge going into Seaside heights,

I am directly across from flat island, about 1/4 mile south of the sand bar, where everybody hangs. House is being framed at the moment, my wife and I were on the roof, when I heard you coming, just could not get the phone out quick enough to get a good vid.. Again, great job with the boat.. Don't think I will splash mine this year with the construction going on.. If your cruising by, look for the house in plywood & my dock will have a pontoon boat/tiki barge on the lift. Stop by for a beer, would love to get a closer look, and see what I am getting next LOL...

Hey Toxic. What town are you in. Im not familiar with Flat Island sorry. Only sandbar Im familiar with is the one that used to be up at Barnegat light. Are you north or South of the bridge. When I figure out where you are ill swing by next time Im down that way. Steve.