oh, and Louie, I raced before and will pay to race again someday for the simple reason I love stuffing the throttle, watching the world get blurry and making all the little hairs on the back of my neck stand up and afterwards, cracking that beer and saying DAMN! I ALMOST DIED, THAT ROCKED AND i CANT WAIT TO DO IT AGAIN!

No, I speak for myself and only myself. I have done-so even when you got phone calls from some powers that be to "tell your boy to chill out on the boards" Did I speak for you then? I am not a puppet, kissa$$ or what ever you want to call it.
Sorry, it must have been when I was on your team that we raced on Friday there , I just remember it was during a weekday the race before NYC
I can call him at any time just as you or any other racer. My plan of action was to get the feelings of what you and your group has on your mind and then go to our class reps let them vote on it, then take it to our Board of Governors. Just because I consider John a friend doesnt mean I can circumvent the process that we have in place on how to get things done.
My opinion is that he is not satified with the current state of affairs. If he was, he wouldnt be on the phone non-stop or traveling on the road everyday of the week to try and make this a better deal for him and for the racers.
Hes not grinning I assure you, but he is just sitting back waiting for OSS to fizzle away, then see who has the next perfect fix to offshore and he will weather that storm until they fizzle away. Remember, this isnt his first rodeo. As far as making or losing money thats something I'll never know, but for someone to do this for 20 some odd years now your right hes more than likely in the black, but incidents like 2002(NO) where the local promoter failed to pay the contracted amount of monies and the prize purse took a couple of months to be paid and he had to refinance his home to pay off the racers when he could have told the racers to go and talk to the promoter( hes well known in offshore) and in 2004 when a particular group failed to come thru on the promised amount of boats they would bring to the show in order to recieve the TDC monies, he paid them anyways in full as a token of good faith, which in turn created a business loss for that race. He takes the good with the bad and keeps marching on
very true
John is three steps ahead of all of us, just as you are with the guys that work with you, if you dont plan for the good, bad, or indifferent then you need to be a follower and not a leader
Your not being negative Bruce, your opinion is valued(well speaking for me at least :drink: ) We all obviously want to make this sport better, but it has to start somewhere, maybe this thread is it, maybe not, but hell its worth a shot
I respectfully disagree with your first comment here, a trick to life is to make mistakes, just dont make them twice. A lot of us in this sport today werent around for a lot of the shortcomings of our sport. Here we have Allweiss and others stepping up and giving us examples of what has worked and what didnt and people on this very thread has stated that offshore was at its best when he ran LLC. If we dont know where we have been, how in the hell will we know where we are going? You dont think that John didnt frame Mike's post saying SBI/APBA is the only way to go for the future. I never thought I'd see that. Mike has my total respect now(not because he supports the organization I chose, because he is one of the few MEN in this sport that has ever admitted self fault) and I look forward to hearing more of his insight into this sport.
This statement totally contradicts what you said above"Lets not look at what killed this sport" ????
Your right about the bills.

Are you guys running Toronto or San Juan, I was thinking about trying to make one of the two? Hopefully my choice is the one that you win!

Back atcha:blaster:

Trent

Bruce,

On a side note, no matter if we agree or disagree on things or where either of us race, I am still your biggest cheerleader. Where ever your boat hits the water be safe and please come thru for me. I keep telling everyone that you are going to win a race, dont let me down, this is your year!

Trent

I had netioned earlier a friend whowas a race promotoer untill he passed away, this is a true race promoter
"Fud was a racer and promoter totally dedicated to the sport of off-road racing. Since 1984 he almost single-handedly put on the Superstition Championship Series near Plaster City in the desert east of San Diego. He also put on races in Tecate, BC and was given the prestigious “Amigos de Baja” award in 1999 by the Governor of Baja California, Norte. Since the early 80’s he staged the AMA District 38 races for Motorcycles and ATV’s and successfully merged the dis-trict events into his Superstition Championship Series in 1985 under his ‘Fudpucker Racing Team’ banner. Fud held off-road races at the fairgrounds in Imperial Valley and promoted a variety of other events too numerous to mention. It was not uncommon for Fud to put on over 30 races each year assisted only by a small group of friends. Everyone that knew Fud, liked him and to Fud, the racers were his family. He had no ambitions to upstage other promoters but was content to learn from them and make his events safer and more enjoyable for those that competed in his races."

For the Record, I was not advocating against OPA. That organization rocks and its leaders are doing a great job. Offshore racing needs OPA. In fact, the sport needs more such organizations so that people who want to race in other parts of the country can have a fun place to go. As far as I know, the OPA leadership is not advancing the organization as a national sanctioning body.

My only point is that for the sport to have any chance of getting off the canvas it must do so with one national organization, one [B]national[B] schedule (whatever that is at the beginning - 8 Florida, two someplace else it does not matter you have to START somewhere), one national champion, etc. IMO.

As for OSS, it is dying. Like it or not, deny it if you want to but it is showing all the signs of running out of steam like so many organizations that have come before it.

From the start it depended on other people's ideas and products, and sugar daddy money. Well, now you have SC's that are 35mph faster and which have splintered off anyway, a "new" 850 class which in no time at all will be pushing the 200mph barrier, the sugar daddy's are gone, the inmates are running the asylum, etc. etc. Anyone who is a student of the history of this sport will agree with me - It is bed time for OSS.

Again, all I am doing is giving my perspective on what it will take to even have a chance to start on the road back to the next level. Take it for what it is worth. No credible investor(s) or big money sponsor is going to touch this sport as long as it is fractured.

Given that OSS has no chance of long term survival, and John has proven over and over again he is here to stay unless and until he decides to retire, he is the only roof. If OSS racers get discouraged and quit because of that then so be it. There are enough left, but barely, make no mistake, who will come over and my guess is to welcome arms. Racers choice. Simple as that.

While it's obvious that Carbonell knows how to survive with 30-40 boats, I think he could survive just as easily with 80-90.

Why? There has been a lot of great discussion and input on this thread. Untill the last page, it has been a very positive thread. But let's say you're right and we're all pissin in the wind UNLESS Carbonell jumps into this headfirst. Does that mean that everyone here should DEMAND that Billy Mauf should come to this thread and weigh in himself? Maybe that in itself would be a great step in moving things along the right track.

Actually, Trent is spot-on with his response. Evolution is learning from mistakes. Unfortunately, the history of offshore racing has seen the repeat of the same mistakes over and over. How many times does the sport have to "splinter" due to egos and big bank accounts before the egos figure out that that is just another step backwards? And I don't know about John C., but I'm bettin Billy M is NOT happy with what he has.

Let's all remember this statement, and watch to see which business fails next.

Bruce, I hope you understand this is nothing personal between you and I. While I have the utmost respect for you as a racer, I respectfully disagree with some of your statements. Seeing Rich L. and Mike A. agreeing with each other, including both agreeing on mistakes made in the past, makes me think I reeeeally need to go to church this Sunday. This thread was started by a funeral home director from Kansas that's racing Offshore boats. That's more than just a fun hobby, that's passion and dedication for a sport we all love. This thread was, and is, hopefully laying groundwork for the very future of our sport. It may not be the golden magic answer right here and right now, but it is a great first step and off to a great start. Let's keep this on a positive track.

Guys,

This thread has opened a lot of eyes and thank you Brad for starting it. We have seen a lot of the usual suspects and a few surprises from the past which had shead light to a lot of things. However, this thread has turned into a SBI/APBA vs. OSS thread. This is conterproductive and ruins the spirit of the thread. In re-reading Brad's original post time and time again, I see that he is asking what we can do as SBI/APBA racers to put on a better show at our race sites. We need to get back to that point and try and make our sites a better place.

To use my divorce as an example and with all due respect to Mike A, Brett Hartley and the rest, The only winner out of it was the lawyers. I think my x-wife and I spent over 30,000 combined in order to figure out that I get my son when I get him. I didnt win, she didnt win and our son sure as hell didnt win, hell we blew one year of college tuition on lawyers because of pride, passion, and egoes. I despise her but we are able to sit back and laugh about how stupid we were. The coralation I am making is when it was an SBI vs. LLC battle, who really won? Not even the lawyers in that deal, but I know who lost, us, the racers and the fans. Now with it being OSS vs. SBI/APBA once again the cycle rears its ugly head and as usual the racers and the fans lose once again.

We all have choices in life and if you chose to to race over there, god bless you and be safe. Just as we opened up our arms to LLC upon the demise, we will open our arms up to you and welcome you at anytime to come and race with us. I am sure that John would make the appropriate changes in order to accomodate 80-100 boats. He has before and did a fine job.

Let us get back to Brad's intial ideas and go forward. That way we can assure that this thread has some results. I apologize to Brad for taking this thread into a different direction, I had a glimmer of hope that something could be resolved for all of offshore, but I tried and the best thing to do is let dead dogs lie. I am not throwing in the towel(I still hold hope), but I am just a little peon in this sport and now I am being accused of speaking for the association, when I should ask the same thing, but I try to minimize stupid questions that I know the answers to. OSS vs SBI/APBA is very simple, if the racers dont see it then shame on you.

Mike A, thank you once again for your honesty and stepping back in to try and make the sport that we all love, a better place.

Also thank you to the fans, the manufactuers and the rest for your contributions to this. It just goes to show that we all do have something in common no matter what sandbox we chose to play in. We all love offshore racing!

Trent

Mike,

1) I do have a vested interest ...

2) I don't see how suggesting that whatever "Official" Sanctioning body is left standing (being as many feel that the others are presumed to fail) should make an effort to see that Offshore racing is brought throughout the country makes you assume I am looking to destroy a thread ??? :confused:

3) I have never avoided any sandbox. If that was the case, I wouldn't be promoting that particular sanctioning body on my site. Obviuosly I try to promote all Racing no matter what the organization.

There are many here that no longer race nor have anything to do with the racing any longer speaking their minds and opinions.

Would you like to ask them to leave too now Mike? :rolleyes:

uhmmm..not to sund like a deek ( as I duck to avoid the cleavers being thrown at me like ninja stars) this thread was started looking for positive ideas to move the sport foreward. we are all passionate about it or we wouldnt be here. the thread is starting to degrade into an egocentric grudge fest. the past is the the past, today the races have been set, lets think about making tomorrow a better day. lets reenforce and expand upon the positives. and work to keep the rough water on the racecourse. commradery, friendship and team work will move the sport foreward. isnt that what we all enjoy about boating much less racing?? oh..and anyone got a spare seat for srasota?? hehehe:drink:

Mike A, why are you not answering the questions asked in post 219? You seem convinced OSS is losing steam, I look for a few boats added to the OSS boat count and sites like LOTO adding great exposure, but that is not the question here. If you are looking for a bigger show than for now the answer is joint races. It works if you don't fleece the racers, we are all going to register are equipment were we choose, but would probably have no problem paying entry fees at a joint site, increased boat count.......get more money from the cities, sponsors and fans going forward. Instead of the racers, we all realize we must pay to race for now, but we all put a limit or reason on how much. It worked great in St Clair and Destin. If the racers want to do something they should stop holding there breath for the otherside to fail and demand joint races........that is the only short term answer. Sarsota joint SBI APBA (pre merger) outstanding turnout and 2004 Key West as United Worlds.......imagine where it could be if it stayed a united worlds, you would think someone could figure out how to make money off that. I read all this JC this JC that and figure he could really care less he was surviving when APBA (Mike A) was putting the screws to him and will survive to the end, but obviously alot of racers are not happy with that and are frustrated or this post would not exist. The racers need to demand changes or this is all just friendly or unfriendly banter. OSS will not quit and join sbi, sbi will not quit and join OSS and OPA will live on.....so it seems obvious there is only one solution for now or continue holding your breath!