496 Class ???
 

I just had lunch with Miklos and Gary and we had a conversation about the motor packages for F1 and F2. If no one can come up with an agreement for the motor package, as we thought was agreed upon in St.Pete for the F1 and F2 classes, what about a new class for either the Inovation 496 or the 496 with dry exhaust added ?

As some of you may have heard, Extreme will have a F1 boat or a boat in this new class if it becomes available for the 2004 season. Gary D. on Throttles and Gordo Driving.

I for one am all for the Innovation package. $13,000.00 and you have a motor package as we talked about in St. Pete.

Let's get some imput on this so we can all get our motor packages together and start testing for 2004.

Dave Warden

c/c www.Wetpits.com

No new classes!!! Decide on a motor and stick with it for 3 years min with no changes to the rules.

I agree. What is NOT needed is more classes that resemble existing classes (F1 and F2). Put the $13000 engine in F1 and F2. With F1 and F2 presently running the same engines as SVL and SV, there is not much difference other than canopies. I realize there is more than canopies differentiating the two series, Factory and Super. I just think there needs to be more of a separation between the two series and at the same time, bring Factory back to it's original concept of one engine and one drive. It will grow the class again.
Russ Withiam

We had the "E" class and it lasted a year?
Put a 500HP in it and run F1. Allen is working on getting things worked out with LLC, hopefully a firm answer will be coming soon.

Dan

I'm in for the Innovation 496 idea. In fact, what about the HP2? :)
Russ, I'm with ya !!!

I posted this question in the WetPits also.... Why not go to a open manufacturer spec motor F2 class?? The motors must meet certain displacements specs, and cannot put out over and agreed HP/TQ number. Each different team could run whatever engine they want as long as it complies with the numbers. Certification would consist of putting the motor on a Dyno at whatever facility designated by APBA, running it and checking the output, and if it complies seal it. That would open up the market to alot of guys like Sterling, Eickert (KE not KEPP), Chief, etc. This would also probably keep the costs down. Kinda like NASCAR. Good idea??

Certainly not a bad idea...
 

But, what would the window be? how tight are we going to keep the horsepower and torque tolerances? Are we going to be pissing off engine builders if their motors don't fall into this window by a couple of HP??
I'm not saying I would be against it, but again, we would be opening things up to a class where the motors are not "equal" and could possibly open a window of opportunity for "imaginative experimentation" if you will... ;)

they have a class for that,its called B class!

Regarding engine options for Factory 1:

APBA has announced that there will be no rule changes for 2004...I would think that would mean engines also.

Currently there are four engines approved for the class; 500carb, 500EFI, 525, Vortec.

The 525 was the winning engine in 2003. It is available, reliable, expensive and arguably too fast for this class.

496HO is available, underpowered for racing, and not race proven.

496/470 Innovation engine is an interesting option but would not be available until late February. Maybe an option for 2005.

Finally, see paragraph one above.

Allen

Hey allen , what engine did the Vortec Extreme have this year ? from what I can recall it was the 496 , could be wrong though ! If it did wouldnt that mean it is neither underpowered or untested in racing ? These are simply questions and are not intended to rile anyone up ! Thanks Mike Fosse

Hey Mike,
The Extreme boat ran the Vortec HP3 which is also allowed to run in Factory 1 Last year you could lease one...and heard you can this year threw Innovation.

Gino

Gino ,First off , hows the back ? need Lisa for another massage ? what cubic inch is the HP3 , ? it seemed to be a great motor ! thanks mike

The HP3 is 496 cid. Specs here
http://www.gm.com/automotive/gmpower...3_brochure.pdf

Allen
Where are you planning to race?

Having attended both meetings where many of the factory teams met, first with Mercury Racing in Ft Lauderdale, then with APBA/Innovation in St. Pete, I can see why APBA decided to simply keep the rules as they are.
At the last meeting in St. Pete, it seemed that everyone was willing to change to whatever motor was decided for the future of the class and the good of the class.
Almost immediately afterwords, some of those same teams started backtracking on their commitment to the class unless their choice of engine was selected.
Let's face it, APBA is having some problems. Some of the biggest problems APBA is dealing with is teams who scream that they want a voice in their class, yet cannot make up their own mind, let alone make up their collective minds as a class. I've had some great discussions with a few of the Factory 1 teams, and feel that with open minded communication we have made some great strides in compromise concerning the engine choices. Yet, there are still a few who just don't want to see the big picture.
Now, with all this in mind, please consider this...
The competition director has said that if everyone can make a unanimous decision, he'd go with it. Then he sees all this back & forth indecision/personal agenda stuff going on. Now, in the last few weeks add; a family member in critical care due to trauma, one of his closest friends in the hospital in ICU with medical problems, trying to work behind the scenes of APBA trying to control some of the damage done by a group of self serving racers who wanted it their way... or else. THEN he sees a handful of the Factory 1 racers who demand instant decisions, then make noises about going elswhere to race anyway. And we wonder why they said "screw it" and just kept things the same for another year.
Actually, When I look at it, we probably look almost as bad as those select selfserving superteam guys. :rolleyes:

Happy Holidays Mike.

It's nice to hear from you!

Gordo,

Allow me to correct some mis-impressions.

The first meeting to discuss engines with APBA was at Innovation in Sarasota in August. The second meeting was in Ft. Lauderdale in September where we met with Mercury Racing. The third meeting was in St. Petersburg in October where Mike basically told us how it would be.

I think we were resigned to the 496 engine at that point. But time marches on. As we got into November and there was no follow-up announcement about engines, those of us who want to get our boats set up right started to get impatient. We had agreed to one engine. The engine was to be the 496. The engine now will not be available until late February. The HP500EFI is the most realistic fall back position for 2004. Real simple.

What are we supposed to do? We do want to help build a professional motorsport. By help do we mean sit on the sidelines, be quiet and let bad decisions be made on our behalf?

We have tried to get involved, communicate with the teams and with the sanctioning body. Our goal is what is best for everyone, not just one. We are by our nature proactive, accomplished, involved, and competitive people. We have a lot to offer.

Recognize that and work with it not against it.

Allen Campbell

Gordo,
Very well said.....If the teams can't make the disition the LLC has to and we all agree to race under their rules and I mean all and bring th 12-14 F1 boats back for 2004 to show the class is not dead.....and then work all together for something for 2005.....but agree alot of teams just want the rules up front in stone and they will race....and LLC has spoken and its time to get the boats ready for 2004 and race....