Advice needed on a Tow
 

A buddy of mine may be buying a older 40' Cat from south florida. Main obstacle here is transporting the boat back to chicago. The boat has a 11'6" beam. The trailer under it is a dinosaur, needs brakes, and bearings to be road worthy at minimum.

I think the best way to go is having the boat and trailer hauled on a semi trailer. However, got a couple prices, and it sure isnt the cheapest option. But probably the safest.

Other option is, to have a shop go thru the trailer down there, and have a hauler tow it back on its own trailer. Less money on the haul than the semi, but would still need to drop the money to get the trailer redone at a shop 1400 miles from us.

He suggested we drive down ourselves and tow it back with his F350 SRW 4x4 diesel truck. (after the trailer was redone). I told him I did not think towing a heavy old 40ft cat thats near 12ft wide with a SRW pickup 1400 miles would be a good idea! Not sure I'd even want to do it with a F350 Dually.

Any thoughts on this guys?? Once the trailer is back here, we could go thru it ourselves, and in no big hurry, as the boat will be stored using rack service anyhow.

The semi option may not be as expensive as you think. The trailer probly needs tires and wiring as well as the brakes and bearings depending on how long it has been sitting. Then theres permit issues for the trip back unless you want to risk not getting them? An F350 can do it but I wouldn't use a SRW. I am assuming that it is a tag along trailer? Probly not for that size. So you might need the correct hitch put on your truck too. There is a few guys on here that can help you with the tow including myself but the trailer would need to be repaired and road worthy. Unless it can be repaired by the hauler, then down time is an issue. That being said, the trailer has value which can be recovered by the sale of it when you return including the repair costs done to it. I probly didn't help at all? Just my 2 ct's worth.

Just get "The Goast" to haul it for you with his dodge :party-smiley-004:

he definitly wants to keep the trailer. He had planned to redo it with new brakes, tires, wheels, paint, etc anyhow, just not like "this week". More of a winter project.

Plus when dealing with a shop that he is unfamiliar with, who knows what he will spend fixing it up. At least if he holds off till it gets home, we can redo it ourselves. I am voting for the semi haul. But I will show him any input that you guys have, as he is kinda new to the whole big boat towing thing. Right now its just my input in his ear.

Member Sydwayz has the answer to one of your questions in his sig line - if you have to ask, no you can't tow it.

I don't like towing my 35 Cig with my Dually Diesel F350, I sure as hell wouldn't want to tow a 40 CAT with less truck.....

I think you will be happiest if you just have it thrown on a semi and hauled, or have a local reputable shop go through it and have it hauled back....

LOL! Yea he can do it no permits, 2 out of three axles, brakes and lights out no problem. Then tow it in the last 35 miles on 2 wheels! You know he's got a Class A licence and everything.

I know when I drove a big truck there was alot of frieght going to Florida, but nothing coming out..not sure about flatbeds, but it could be the same story for them.So someone might be sitting down there that'll do it for cheap. Just to get out of Florida.

Id say you can hire me to do it, since I live in Grand Rapids but I just hauled a boat from Ft worth TX to Maryland and the owner swore it was roadworthy...I picked it up and although this was the first thing i pulled with my new truck, it felt heavy for a 20ft skeeter. I stopped 2 blocks from the dudes house to check tire pressure and come to find out the brakes were locked up..so much for "yea, its roadworthy"..

If your doubtful about the trailer condition already and dont want to trust a shop to do it, id put it on a flatbed.

If you get everything fixed though...let us know! :coolcowboy:

:evilb:

That long of a haul you are better off just putting it on a flatbed. Think about the time it would cost the two of you to go down and get it, fix the trailer and then pray for no hassles going back. Probably at least a 3-5 day ordeal to go get it yourselves. Put it on a flatbed and just sit back and wait for it to show up.

call bob sheer @ sheer performance. 954-646-6070. He has big truck with lowboy trailer. He is a former racer specializing in wide loads.

From experience, I hauled a 35' cruiser 12' beam for 900 miles and during the trip, I can't tell you how many times I said to myself "your so stupid". I even had a f-650 and a goose trailer. By the time I got home I could of paid someone else to hauled it 1800 miles and saved money. I have been known to spend a dollar to save a dime and this is one of them.

My thoughts - unless you like driving like I do and don't mind the worry that something can always happen put it on a flatbed and fix the trailer when it comes home.

Me, I would pull it back myself because that is what I like to do.

As far as your single wheel truck goes, if you balance the load well it makes no difference what so ever single wheel, dual wheel, 250, 350, 450 - I adjust my boat on the trailer to fit the tongue weight that I want.

I feel it's the brakes on the trailer that make the difference - you need good trailer braking that is equal to the truck braking and it will stop well - the truck itself can not stop the whole rig safely.

I set the boat back and if it too lite on the nose and I get a little sway I move it up a little. Sway is not enough weight on the tongue. Never needed a scale to tell me what the truck likes on it's ass weight wise - the truck tells you once you pull it a couple miles at cruising speed.

If you're getting permits many states require dual rear wheels for an over width permit. I have towed with both single and dual wheel, and with a heavy load there really is a big difference regardless of how it's balanced although the load should be balanced properly. Dual rear wheels carry more weight safely.

Bowtie - let me ask you to explain how the weight of the trailer would make any difference as compared to the tongue weight when it comes to single or dual? Take ratings from manufactures out of it because that is based more on truck braking capacity and ability to carry weight whether it is in or leveraged onto the truck.

ie our test is a 20,000 boat and trailer set-up:
#1 has 1,500 tonque weight
#2 has 3,000 tonque weight

Let's look at braking, #1 with dual rear wheels has so little weight on the rear wheels that if you stepped hard on the brakes because the truck rear wheels would then to lock-up and go into a skid mode which is unsafe

#1 with single wheel has more PSI of road contact and less apt to lock-up therefore safer on hard braking.

I can on and on about all this but I'd like your techinical explainations as to why you believe what you said.

PS not trying to be a smart ass here, and I agree with big boats usally are nose heavy and the single wheels are not enough to support the tonque weight but that is much different than the weight of the trailer being too heavy for single wheels - please let's debate - it's cloudy as hell today and my wife is saying "it's to nasty to go on the boat today" so I'm cranky! (LOL)

The dual rear wheels are good if you have a rear flat or lose trailer brakes (more surface area to stop a heavy load).

mild thunder:

Your issue is the trailer will need a complete overhaul in Florida unless you ship it on a flat bed. The brakes will need a complete go through. If they are surge brakes plan on completely replacing them along with the master cylinder. This will not be cheap in time or money. If you do plan on trailering it I would ask on the board here for recommendations of trailer service shops in Fla. near to the location of the boat. I fooled around with my surge brakes for a whole winter then gave up and had it converted to electric brakes by a trailer shop near me. I am much happier with functioning brakes now.

You will probably be near the limit of the SRW truck with that 40 ft cat. Having a 11' 6 width means driving only in daytime hours figure at least 2+ days of driving sun up to dusk.

Wannabe

pookie,

More surface area to stop a load? Under that theory when you bobtail with a tractor and there are 8 tires in the back why when you step on the brake hard will the wheels lock up and skid?

If you had 16 tires (not factoring in the extra weight of the 8 tires) then it should not skid or skid less - right? The fact is it will skid even easier because each tire has less ground pressure and will skid easier.

The more pressure on the contact area of the tire the harder to make it skid the better to stop providing your brakes can apply ample pressure and you don't spin the tire on the rim with that much resistance.

All that being said - ratty old trailer, small truck, doubtfulness of repairs to trailer put it on a flatbed and bring it home.

I have a tandem dually and the weight is over the axles. It stops hard and doesn't skid. The brake actuator needs to be adjusted well. Even with good equipment, it doesn't have the redundancy like a big rig with air brakes. All it takes is a fuse to blow to lose trailer brakes. I agree that with poor traction ( i.e. Wet pavement) weight on the tires factors in but in most conditions, surface area in contact is the limiting factor.

First off, the reason a bobtail skids when trying to stop is there is not enough weight on the tires. As far as the dually, I never even mentioned tounge weight. The dual wheels give more stability, less chance of roll over. You don't feel the side to side rocking with a dually you that is there with a single wheel truck when towing. That's why the states require dual rear wheels. I don't think the gross combined weight rating is any higher with the dual wheels, but if you've ever towed with both, there is a big difference.

Yes there is big difference, a dually doesn't fit in the track the big trucks make, they sway much more, I have them at the generator shop and would tow with a single wheel anyday over a dually around the NJ/NY area.

I say my vs your personal perfernce in towing.

What do you mean by roll over? Tire sidewall type of failure or the truck rolling over?

What states require dual rear wheels for towing unless it's for above an overall gross weight?

[QUOTE=seafordguy;2876169]Member Sydwayz has the answer to one of your questions in his sig line - if you have to ask, no you can't tow it.

I don't like towing my 35 Cig with my Dually Diesel F350, I sure as hell wouldn't want to tow a 40 CAT with less truck.....

QUOTE]

Why is that

I have pulled my 38' scarab, 38' Cig, and 43' Black Thunder all over the place with my 350 diesel dually ( Even pulled the BT through McDonalds Drifve thru) :lolhit:
We pulled the 38'Cig to Florida from Michigan and back home a few times

Electric over Hydraulic brakes are a must for long haul towing but other than that it is a breeze

If you have a 350 Dualy and a 35 foot boat it should be a breeze to tow

Just hit the scales this weekend with my rig. 02 Top Gun on Steel Manning trailer w elec over Hyd, 13300 lbs, full of fuel.
I tow with a SRW 3500 CC Chevy, does pretty well, Total rig weight is right at the 22,000 GVW that it is rated for.
Time to start shopping for that F650 Cat package.

Its a well known fact that duallys are more stable with a load on them then a single wheel..and its common sense..with two more tires on the rear axle helping with the load.

But ya'll have hijacked this thread. Mild thunder..has your friend made a decision? Gotta post pics of his new ride too!!:popcorn:

Have it hauled professionally on a flatbed!

[QUOTE=boatme;2877225]Didn't say it didn't handle it fine or that it wasn't enough truck - my commentary was really more along the lines of the fact that it is still plenty of load out back....

That must have been one HELL of a drive thru.....!!!!!:eek::eek:

Your own state of New Jersey for one requires dual rear wheel for any overwidth permit. It's stated on the permit. South Carolina also, not sure of the others. There's a reason they require it, you can argue all day about this but most that tow alot will agree a dually tows better than a single axle truck. I wonder why they put dual wheels on big trucks drive axles?

bowtie - I'm glad you read but not all thrucks have dual tires. They have been pushing "super singles" for years, not with must success here but they still try hard, since your in NJ next time look at the APGAR trucks (flatbeds & tanks) they run singles on the tractors and trailers.

Question do you drive / own big trucks? Not going anywhere with that question just want to know won't fire a smart ass answer back - maybe we know each other?

Any thoughts?

The Mississippi!

[QUOTE=boatme;2877225]Not if his tounge weight is set totally wrong ?!:eek:

What did you decide on the tow? Call bob 954-646-6070 and save a bunch of headache's. The debate of tongue weight is simple, it works on a greater percentage of weight forward of the balance point(axles). The heavier the object, the more tongue weight you end up with. That's why 18 wheeler trailer axles are all the way back and the tractor can hold so much weight. It's always better to be safe than sorry!!!!

I forgot.80% of a vehicles brakes are in the front, so the dually not stopping as well as a single wheel, not the case.

Have you moved your boat yet? If you go to my web site: www.sheerperformancemarine.com you'll see that I can load your boat and trailer, and deliver to chicago. my phone: 954-646-6070. bob sheer

He ended up purchasing a Cig out of Chicago so no help needed

First of all you must think of the width of the boat. YOU NEED PERMITS! Dont try it without permits because they will have you leave the trailer there where ever they catch you while you go to try and get a permit once you get caught. Then you have to drive only in daylight with some curfews in different areas. READ THE LAWS. If you can get the trailer repaired you need to take thought of the weight of the total vehicle and what it is registered for and the load. Your best choice is to pay the pro to haul it. If you hit something with the wide load and no permits or the class license it needs to haul it, You will loose the boat in fines and legal fights. Something that wide and size try to call a pro in Fl with a low boy and he might be able to tilt it and avoid the width.

"The debate of tongue weight is simple, it works on a greater percentage of weight forward of the balance point(axles). The heavier the object, the more tongue weight you end up with. That's why 18 wheeler trailer axles are all the way back and the tractor can hold so much weight. It's always better to be safe than sorry!!!!"

This statement is a little off base - let's look at what the law allows for a big truck 80,000 lbs on the scales:
steer axle 12,000lbs
drive axle tractor 34,000 lbs
trailer axle 34,000 lbs

So, the law mandates that the weight on the tractor and trailer are equal and since the tractor weighs more than the trailer the trailer carries more of the weight. Also, the tandems on the trailers for the most part are able to slide.

You set them all the way back to make bridge formulas and somewhat better ride as long as the tractor can carry it nicely - air bags better so than springs. But if your at 80,000 it's almost impossible to scale out with the tandems all the way back, you need to slide them up and get some weight off the front of the trailer.

Throw in the fact that the fifth wheel slides back and forth to adjust weight on the steer axle as well!

Brakes, when you throw tractor trailer into this you couldn't be more off - the brake shoe sizes and numbers of brakes are the same on the trailer as the tandem of the tractor with exactly the same pressures - exactly. No 80% done in the front, don't understand that at all? The steer axle of the tractor has little brakes shoes with a pressure limiting valve so it gets 40% - 50% less pressure on the brakes applied. The reason is, if you lock the front brakes you have no control and can not keep a skidding truck and trailer straight - no steering means accident. Back in the day and ask any old trucker we used to take the front brakes completely off the tractor and that was DOT legal in the 70's and early 80's.

Here's my point, why aren't all you people who think this was so unsafe getting all upset about GLH and his new tow rig???? It has single tires on it therefore it must be unsafe. The fact that it is an F-650 makes no difference becasue all the arguments on here are based on single tires. His braking must also be no good for that big boat he's hauling because he has single tires - look at the pics of his truck are those just big tires or super singles?

Why is that imnportant, because super singles put hims into the 18 wheeler class, big tires means the guy that started this thread could have have BIG tires as well therefore contact with the road surface equals or exceeds that of a dually and all the arguemnts about s braking and whether he had single or dual tires goes away!!!