pat@osp

Fixxer,

Didn't want to hijack on someone else so I figured I'd start a new thread. Wanted to get your opinion on something and also have some questions if you don't mind. Trying to decide on what the right move is with shuffling around my truck situation. Lots of internet forum experts around but I'd really value the opinion of someone that sees them come in with all the problems.

First I have an '02 F550 7.3 that I use for long distance transport. Love everything about the truck except driving it around empty trying to use it as a daily driver. I also have an '06 F350 that was supposed to go after I got the F550 but I love the ride quality and comfort of it over the 550 so I've hung on to it to use as a daily driver. Thinking about replacing both with an '09 or '10 F450 6.4 with the theory that I'll get the comfort of the F350 combined with the towing capabilities of the F550. The question is, in your experience, can the 6.4 truck be counted on to be a reliable heavy hauler for say 250k miles assuming proper maintenance? If I went this route I'd do a DPF delete, AFE cold air, and Spartan tuner probably. Also should an EGR cooler delete be done on the 6.4? I've read some horror stories on here and other sites about the 6.4's but thinking maybe it's just that the unhappy people are the ones that spend the time posting and there's many more that are running fine? Also am I correct in my impression that the '09 and '10 6.4's are much more reliable? Did they get it figured out after the '08 truck problems?

Option 2 is to keep the current F550 and replace the F350 with an Expedition for daily driving. I'm thinking an '04 or '05 6.0? Is it worth holding out for an '05 over and '04 with an Expedition? Also do the '05 Expeditions have the coil spring front end or did they still have leaf springs? Do you see the Expeditions having less 6.0 related problems than the pickup trucks because they don't see as much heavy use?

Last option I thought about is to get an '11 F550 6.7 cab and chassis and put an '08 - '10 pickup body on it. I won't get an '11 F450 pickup because as far as I can tell they seem to be an F350 with the "tow boss" and a different badge. I want the Dana 110 rear, 19.5's, and big brakes so if I get an '11 I think a cab and chassis is the only option. I also hate the new dually fenders on the '11 trucks. Do you know if the '11 C&C trucks use the 34" frame rail width like the earlier ones?

So I guess to boil it down..............in your opinion what is the better more reliable drivetrain for long distance heavy towing.........the '02 7.3, the '09-'10 6.4, or the '11 6.7? Obviously I know there's not much of a track record on the 6.7 but just based on what you've seen and learned so far.........

Thanks in advance for any feed back and insight you can provide and sorry for the novel................now that I look at it there's probably about 50 questions there

Why do I have the funny feeling that you're gong to tell me "none of the above" and I should get an '05 - '07 6.0L F450 or 550 instead

Thanks, Pat

Fixxxer22

well, I'm sorry if i bounce around here...

the 6.4 sucks unless it wont re-generate. but, with emissions it needs to to be legal. that being said. the dpf deldte is great. AFE is crap. any intake is crap. keep them stock. its not worth dusting a turbo or engine becaue you may think you are getting better airflow. the 6.4 in comparison to the 7.3 and 6.0 has weak internals. you can have a 6.0 or 7.3 hydro-lock on accident and not bend a rod by cranking it. the 6.4 will bend in a heart beat.

excursions are sweet, but you are correct, ford planned on scrfapping them. they installed the latest grille and headlamps on 05 but never gave them the interior or suspension. but excursions are like gold. people love them with a diesel powerplant. also, the excursion never received anything later than the 04.25 6.0 engine. so, if you get one you will not have the coil over ride.

the 2011 is cool, have not seen many problems. but its too new. i would say keep what u got. wait a couple years and invest in the 2011 6.7. i prefer the 6.0s that you have and the 7.3 i just dont think the 6.4 without oil changes every 3k is a good engine. if you can maintain a 6.4 then you are good.

Fixxxer22

haha, just reading your post again, the 6.4 has 2 egr coolers, they are pretty tough. i have never had one just blow. only when they had other cooling system problems. the problem is calibration, lets face it. there is ford and international engineers working on calibrations for these trucks to make them run, shift, and act correctly. companies can tweak this stuff but its never the same. i have yet to see a 6.4 without egr. but i bet it will need a mod to a chip or something to make it operate without egr. the 6.4 uese egr a-lot.

and on the 2011.... i always thought the 450s had the options of the dana 110 or 135. i will talk to my heavy sales guy and see if that has ended. but it makes sense. they are offering a harley and king ranch 450. some people just want it cuz of the high number not due to its towing abilities. and there are more people running the harley and king ranch 450s every day as a daily driver than towing with it.

pat@osp

Thanks a bunch for the info. So what I'm hearing is your opinion is to stay away from the 6.4 for my intended use compared to what I already have. You're right on the 6.0 rods........I saw one lock up and stall while running due to a bad injector o-ring that filled the engine right to the top with diesel. When the engine was drained, o-ring fixed, and new oil in it started right up, no rod damage. My '02 7.3 has the powdered metal rods..........not forged like the '99 and '00 engines............ but I'm not racing it and trying to make 500 RWHP so I'm not too worried. I really do like the F550 for towing so maybe I'll look at an Excursion or even a short bed crew cab SRW truck to replace the '06 F350 dually as the daily driver.

As far as the '11 F450, as I understand it the new F450 pickups come with 17" wheels, smaller brakes, and a Dana 80 rear..................pretty much an F350 as far as I can tell. There was some write up about how Ford changed it based on customer feedback to save weight?? Not sure who's buying an F450 and looking to save 600 or 800 lbs by making it an F350 but what do I know. I'd heard that you'd now need to get a C&C to get the 110 rear and 19.5's. Maybe that's bad info...............I haven't been to a dealership and looked for myself, just what I read.

Thanks again for the info
Pat

Bathtub

Sorry to jump in here guys, but yes Pat your info is correct. The new F450s are basically glorified F350s. The brakes are 1" larger, but not as big as in earlier years, and they only have a Dana 80 rear and 17" wheels. To get a real 5/4 ton truck you must order a chassis cab and have Manning put a bed on it. I spoke with Manning last week and they will still do these conversions for people like us that buy F450s and F550s because we need them, not because we think it sounds cool when we tell our friends we have an F450.

If you buy a factory F450 pickup (2008-current) plan on having it resprung in the rear as the stock leafs are WAY to soft. We have tried air bags, but they make the truck really bouncy and hard to control on rough interstates, but new leafs in the rear solved the problem.

pat@osp

Cool, thanks for the confirmation on that. Looks like a chassis cab for me if I get a 6.7 truck. I have to say that the decision makers at Ford really piss me off sometimes..............they really can make it hard to be a Ford guy sometimes. In '97 I had to do my own dually conversion in order to end up with a crew cab 4x4 dually, in '94 I had to go to Centurian in order to get a 4 door full size heavy duty sport ulitity truck............then they finally do the Excursion which they shortly after discontinue yet everybody seems to still want one. They finally get it right with the F450 pickup and now mess it up after only 3 years. Seems to me that the heavy duty version of the F450 pickup with the 6.7 drivetrain would be a real winner but we have to jump thru hoops to get one now. Oh well.........end of rant.

Good info also on the F450 rear springs. I've seen over 3000 lbs tongue weight at times on the F550 and the full air ride suspension really handles it well. I've also gotten used to the "kneeling" feature on the air ride and would probably do a Kelderman air ride rear suspension if I got an F450 pickup.

Thanks for the info,
Pat

Bathtub

I know what you mean, to get a good truck you pretty much have to build it yourself. We have very similar trucks and I can tell you that you will not be happy with a factory F450 pickup, they are night and day. The new ones are on the F350 172" wheelbase frame, not the much stronger 176" chassis cab frame and it is noticeable. The towing stability is just not what we are used to, especially if you have heavy tongue weights. I have over 100k miles seat time on 6.4 F450s pulling 38' horse trailers all over the country and that has made me appreciate my 2002 F450 much more. I am a die hard Ford man but if I had to replace my truck I would probably be getting a 4500 or 5500 Dodge with a Warner pickup body on it, too many unknowns in the new Fords.

pat@osp

More great info.........thanks! I posted on some diesel forums looking for anyone that has done alot of towing in a big 7.3 truck and also a 6.4 F450 so I could get some first hand comparison feedback..............your info is exactly what I was looking for. Very enlightening to hear you say that the 6.4 F450 makes you really appreciate your 7.3 F450 so much more. Sounds like I may keep the '02 F550 and look for something to replace the 350 as the daily driver.

Of course you had to mention the Dodge with a pick up conversion so you know I'll be researching those for the next two days straight!

Thanks, Pat

Bathtub

To directly compare the 6.4 F450 to a big 7.3, I will say that the 6.4 obviously rides much better empty, but not loaded, it is very bouncy and with stock springs bottoms out. The steering in the 6.4 trucks is a little floaty on the interstate, but with the wide front axle the turning radious is much superior to our 7.3 trucks. The brakes are equally good in both. I prefer the older interior, as the newer seats are very flat and hard and get very uncomfortable on long trips (the new 2011 seats solve this) and the passenger seat and back seat have more room than the new trucks.

I would keep what you have for now and see how the 6.7 trucks perform over time, that is what I am doing, and if they hold up I will get a Manning conversion so that I will have another TRUE 5/4 ton truck, not just a badged up 1 ton. I do really like the Warner body Dodge's, but have not driven one or even seen one in person as they are very rare, and with a price tag of $70k they will stay that way. I have been looking for used ones for over a year and have found none, just redneck versions with a standard bed on the longer frame with a 4" gap between the cab and bed WTF!

pat@osp

Based on your experience with both types of trucks, and Fixxxer22's feedback it sounds like sticking with what I have for now and then going to a 6.7 F550 cab and chassis after it gets more proven makes the most sense. I actually already picked up a Dana "super 60" wide front axle out of an '08 F550 that's been sitting here for a few months. I had originally planned to do a front axle and suspension swap into the '02 truck using stock radius arms and Kelderman front air bags to help with the ride quality and also get the better turning radius. Maybe I'll follow thru with that plan. The truck also already has some aftermarket luxo front seats from whoever did the original conversion that are more comfortable than the seats in the '06.

Looks like I'll just continue to build my own truck yet again. It's no wonder my wife looks at me and just shakes her head in disgust