CDL question
 

I live in CT and tow my boat (29' Formula) with my "commercially registered" 2013 F 350 diesel, dually dump. When hooked up I am just over the magic "26K pound weight limit". I don't do any commercial boat towing, or towing outside of CT. Seems I need a "class A" CDL license.....to be legal.

Can someone tell me what is involved in this......who has gone through this. I've been told different things from different CT DMV offices......some say I need a "road test".....some say I don't!

How much does that truck weigh.
I wouldn't think that your boat and trailer would weigh more than 15,000 LBS?
My truck weighs just over 7,000 LBS and it is Chevy 2500 ext cab long box diesel.
Or is your Formula a cruiser?

Your truck weighs 7,000 but your gvwr is either 8,800 or 9,900

I am at 26,600 lbs. with my truck and boat trailer, DOT goes by GVW rating regardless of what weight you have It registered for. Rules say I need a CDL "A" to drive it legally since the truck is commercially registered. It's a fine line if you use your truck for work and pleasure, fortunately I have an "A"[ATTACH=CONFIG]520363[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]520364[/ATTACH] but you're not supposed to be using a commercially registered truck for personal use even if you own the company (go figure). If you have a company name or dot # on your truck you may get hassled. Buy a 50' motorhome and tow a railcar down 95 and you can ride right by the weigh stations? Also if you do get a cdl you will have to do a written test and then a driving test.

With my class a cdl, had to take a written test then a walk around and then a road test. Since have air brakes had to do the test as well. This was in Texas and sbout 18yrs ago. A friend of mine is getting his and has to do a written and a drive test as well still.

In mass any truck over 10,000 gvw has to be registered commercial no matter what the use. Such a pain and cost a fortune hitting tolls!

Truck and trailer combined GVW over 26k requires an A license to be legal. Towing any trailer over 10k GVW even if combined GVW is not over 26k requires an A license to be legal. Both situations rely on the registered/titled GVW regardless of what it might weigh on the scales.........so towing most triple axle boat trailers empty behind a regular F350 technically requires an A licensed driver according to federal DOT rules. Seems that they will look the other way most times if you look like "Joe pleasure boater" towing your own stuff but not always. If you are towing with a commercially registered dump truck you're bound to open yourself up to more scrutiny and theyll want you to have a CDL A for sure Id think. Some states do have the option of getting a non-commercial (non CDL) A license and that would relieve you of the CDL requirements like log books, maintenance record keeping, inspections, etc but again probably wont fly towing with a dump truck. Not sure if CT even offers non commercial A licenses? In RI you could get an A license doing the road test with your pickup truck (or 1 ton dump truck) and boat trailer if you want but won't get your air brake endorsement. As far as I know in MA you can't do that but instead need an air brake equipped commercial truck to take the road test. Sorry I don't have the CT info but that'll give you some general CDL A info. Also it seems that CT DOT has been much more aggressive doing random stops lately. We got pulled over for a random DOT inspection two weeks ago on 95 in CT with a dually and empty trailer. Luckily we had our log book current and everything squared away. Just got pinched for reverse lights on the truck and a trailer marker light.

I believe you are exactly right. I was stopped by a former CT DOT officer last summer (who now works as a town cop), and he said that because my truck registration is 14K, and my trailer registration is 12,200......that I'm over the "26,000" by roughly 200 lbs.

What the hell do I do my "driving test" with....... do I have to haul my boat an hour away and do a test with that b!itch hooked up???? Lol! I own other trucks and trailers.......but nothing that is over the "26K" when both are hooked up. Only my new dump.....and boat! Figures!

Same here in CT Lil Red........ ridiculously expensive.

Thanks Pat.......good info.

I will look into the non commercial (non CDL) A license..........maybe I'll get lucky! Probably not though!!!!!!

One DMV representative told me it's no big deal....... no test needed, no nothing......it was all just paperwork......but for some reason I don't believe her!!! lol! It's NEVER that easy.............

I started confusing myself... nevermind :lolhit:

Yes, the paper she was referencing was MONEY.

I did some research (a lot of research) on this a year ago just completely confused myself… I even called the local State Police barracks and talked to the DOT officer. He mentioned the non-commercial Class A but then told me it wasn’t necessary less than 26,000lbs…

My truck (08 2500HD Duramax) originally had weight class 3 (7001 lb – 9000 lb) I don’t know how I got out of the dealership with that since the truck’s door sticker is 9,800 lbs.
My trailer has 12,000 lb rating which means the truck registration & weight class now need to be in combination. I re-registered truck to a Class 8 (21,001 lb – 26,000 lb). Actually, my title states 22,000 lbs since that’s the maximum according to the owner’s manual and that’s fine since the combo equals 21,800 lb.

According to the statement above, you are saying I now need a CDL, since the trailer is over 10,000 lbs?

Due to having to drive the farm's grain truck, I've had a class C license forever. My class C is good up to 26K lbs with or without airbrakes. It includes being good for up to 26K lbs COMBINED weight whether personal or commercial registered vehicles. The farm is a business.
Also earlier in my career when I was traveling the country running industrial construction projects as an independant contractor, the general contractors would give me a choice of company trucks to drive and their insurance companies would require a copy of my driver's license if I chose a Ford F450 or F550 to drive. On occasion I was asked to pull a loaded company trailer to project sites as long as the combined GCW was below 26K lbs.

If you guys are barely over 26K lbs, buy an aluminum trailer and get a class C. Problem solved.

Yes, as far as I know that is the case. When I got my first DOT safety inspection at my shop the RI state police DOT officer brought this up to me specifically to make sure I was clear the requirement in the event I had anybody working for me. So truck and trailer with combined GVW 26,001 or more requires a A license. Truck and trailer combined 26,000 GVW or less but with trailer 10,001 GVW or more still requires an A license. So basically towing any trailer that has a GVW of 10,001 GVW or more with anything requires an A license is my understanding. I asked the question........" So I'm towing a twin axle open flatbed car trailer that has two 6k axles (12k GVW) with and F150 and the trailer is empty.........I need a class A license?" The answer I got was yes. I think the reality is if the truck has a pickup bed, truck and trailer dont have any lettering, and both are registered personally probably not going to get hassled. If the truck looks commercial, either have lettering, or either are registered in the name of a business you're likely to get hassled sooner or later.

And BTW, my experience with DOT in general is if you get pulled over because they suspect you are towing illegally they are much more interested in establishing that you are "engaged in a commercial enterprise" in order to start giving you a problem. If you are legitametly towing your own privately owned pleasure boat with a regular pickup truck, without any of the commercial red flags, and they can't make a case that you are engaged in a commercial enterprise they generally loose interest quickly. I'm sure that's not always the case but that has been my experience.

Exactly. The DOT officer said I "stood out like a sore thumb" because I was towing with a mason dump with commercial plates (although I don't have it lettered up, nor numbers on it). Actually.....I had just bought the truck less than a week......and this all happened, on my first time towing with it! (Too bad to.....cause it towed it GREAT!)

this is why I have said before to not put names on your truck. I know guys think it is cool to have the truck lettered up with the boat name or some other such stuff but as soon as you do the DOT is going to look at you as a commercial venture. it does not matter if you really are or not, they will pull you and try to work the angle that you are. when you get stopped by DOT the only thing to remember is that no matter what you think or can prove, you are wrong and the guy writting the book of tickets is right. sure you can go to court and argue it but why give them a reason to pull you in the first place. btw, I have a class A from when I pulled the race boats and have kept it just because once you have it, renewing it is easy. dealing with all the crap to get it now is a pain thanks to all the changes and "improvements" to the testing that is now required.

Some people will have the usual "a cop told me..." or "when I was stopped they would have ticketed me for..."

But the law is the law regardless of what anyone thinks or has heard and this is the law:

(a) Vehicle group descriptions. Each driver applicant must possess and be tested on his/her knowledge and skills, described in subpart G of this part, for the commercial motor vehicle group(s) for which he/she desires a CDL. The commercial motor vehicle groups are as follows:

(1) Combination vehicle (Group A)—Any combination of vehicles with a gross combination weight rating (GCWR) of 11,794 kilograms or more (26,001 pounds or more) provided the GVWR of the vehicle(s) being towed is in excess of 4,536 kilograms (10,000 pounds).

(2) Heavy Straight Vehicle (Group B)—Any single vehicle with a GVWR of 11,794 kilograms or more (26,001 pounds or more), or any such vehicle towing a vehicle not in excess of 4,536 kilograms (10,000 pounds) GVWR.

(3) Small Vehicle (Group C)—Any single vehicle, or combination of vehicles, that meets neither the definition of Group A nor that of Group B as contained in this section, but that either is designed to transport 16 or more passengers including the driver, or is used in the transportation of materials found to be hazardous for the purposes of the hazardous materials as defined in § 383.5.

For those that still don't believe the Feds set up this read question #2:

§383.91 Commercial motor vehicle groups.

Question 1: May a State expand a vehicle group to include vehicles that do not meet the Federal definition of the group?

Guidance: Yes, if: a. A person who tests in a vehicle that does not meet the Federal standard for the Group(s) for which the issued CDL would otherwise be valid, is restricted to vehicles not meeting the Federal definition of such Group(s); and b. The restriction is fully explained on the license.

Question 2: Is a driver of a combination vehicle with a Gross Combination Weight Rating (GCWR) of less than 26,001 pounds required to obtain a CDL even if the trailer Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR) is more than 10,000 pounds?

Guidance: No, because the Gross Combination Weight Rating (GCWR) is less than 26,001 pounds. The driver would need a CDL if the vehicle is transporting HM requiring the vehicle to be placarded or if it is designed to transport 16 or more persons.

Question 3: Can a State which expands the vehicle group descriptions in §383.91 enforce those expansions on out-of-State Commercial Motor Vehicle (CMV) drivers by requiring them to have a CDL?

Guidance: No. They must recognize out-of-State licenses that have been validly issued in accordance with the Federal standards and operative licensing compacts.

Question 4: What Commercial Motor Vehicle (CMV) group are drivers of articulated motor coaches (buses) required to possess?

Guidance: Drivers of articulated motor coaches are required to possess a Class B CDL.

Question 5: Do tow truck operators need CDLs? If so, in what vehicle group(s)?

Guidance: For CDL purposes, the tow truck and its towed vehicle are treated the same as any other powered unit towing a non-powered unit:

—If the Gross Combination Weight Rating (GCWR) of the tow truck and its towed vehicle is 26,001 pounds or more, and the towed vehicle alone exceeds 10,000 pounds Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR), then the driver needs a Group A CDL.

—If the Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR) of the tow truck alone is 26,001 pounds or more, and the driver either (a) drives the tow truck without a vehicle in tow, or (b) drives the tow truck with a towed vehicle of 10,000 pounds or less Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR), then the driver needs a Group B CDL.

—A driver of a tow truck or towing configuration that does not fit either configuration description above, requires a Group C CDL only if he or she tows a vehicle required to be placarded for hazardous materials on a ‘‘subsequent move,’’ i.e. after the initial movement of the disabled vehicle to the nearest storage or repair facility.

http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regul....91&guidence=Y

OK - So, if I read that correctly, as as long as it is not a "commercial vehicle", a placarded vehicle, or transporting people - no CDL is required for a trailer exceding 10,000 lbs. Basically recreational and personal use combination such as mine - truck is registered @ 22k lb combination. Truck rating @ 9.8k lb with the trailer @ 12k lb for a total of 21.8k lb combo for personal use is legal on a class C endorsement?? Correct me if I'm worng.

The back side of my licence says - CLASS: CM - Single/Combo < 26,001 and Morotcycle / Motor Driven Cycle"

You must be an old fart like me and got grandfathered in when the FEDs combined/took over states authority on all DOT matters several years ago.

Correct. Exactly what I said.

I got my class C in '96. I've never had/needed a CDL and definitely don't want one lol

You are legal, like others have said once you put a name, lettering on a vehicle you are considered commercial even if it is just advertising your own stuff BUT either way weight wise you are legal.

Great! I have already printed, highlighted, and placed HabanaJoe's link in the truck with my registration and insurance cards!!:thankyouthankyou:

LOL - I know that cops bust balls but the law is the law after owning several hundred trucks and hundreds of millions of miles through most states I learned one thing - no one gets pulled over or hassled for doing nothing! Something made the cop look at you whether you have ultra dark tinted windows, dressed like a gangster, your car was too loud, dirty as sh*t, the stereo is blasting cop killer rap music but something made them look twice at you!

LOL! I shouldn't have to worry about your examples but do agree with your point! A buddy of mine got stopped last year for running a weight class 3 and towing a 33' boat. It turned into a $600 lesson!

My truck is unmarked with the exception of a Sunsation decal on the rear window... That's probably enough to meet the defination of "marked"...

For you PA residents...http://www.dmv.state.pa.us/pdotforms.../section_1.pdf page 11.

In PA if you tow over 10,000 pounds (commercial or not) you need a combination weight on your registration.

was that on page 11, I'm not seeing what you are refernecing?

That is good info in section 1 and contradicts what I was told by the RI DOT state trooper...........not that I'm too surprised by that. That was the point I had been trying to make and the answer didnt make logical sense to me when I had the discussion with him..........shouldn't it be over 26k GVW combined AND over 10k GVW towed vs OR 10k towed? I'd swear he showed me something in writing reflecting what he said but it was a long time ago now.

Troopers don't know all the laws, we had a problem last year "again" here in NJ where we are based and we had to take it to a special Trooper that does training for the general population of NJ Trooper's in DOT regs to resolve our matter.

I believe the CDL laws are repeated with more folklore and say so than fact, so much so they become the facts - like the famous quote "when the legend becomes fact, print the legend!"

I'm in Michigan so it may be different. Here if combined vehicle and trailer exceed 25,999 lbs you need a Class A CDL. TO get one you have to pass a written exam, a road test with a semi+trailer and doctors exam. One time deal, if you get a DUI it is gone.

Hope this helps.

Correct. I bumped mine up to a Weight Class 8 (21,001 lb to 26,000 lb) in combination. Mine is actually titled @ 22,000 lb since that it the maximun according to my owner's manual (they take a copy of the page when it is submitted). The Weight Class 8 cost $405/year or $0.135/mile since only drive it ~ 3000 miles/year. Lol

Just because the boat trailer is rated for X pounds over what the boat actually weighs is stupid. Ranks right up there with all guys being rapists because they have the hardware and the thoughts.

Sorry section 1-1 has a chart to determine if you need a CDL in PA...It is page 11 of the PDF file

Here is an article that I believe does a great job discussing this very topic, hope it helps.

http://gohorseshow.com/article.cfm?articleID=34603

That is a great article, thank you for finding that!

My pleasure HabanaJoe.

Not part of this discussion but to keep log books or not?

This will really mix things up but the article references "log books" for over 10,000 lbs. Well, if it's a CDL vehicle you have the 100 air mile radius rule exempting you from log books with time sheets, or if a Non-CDL vehicle you can have 150 air mile radius with no log book.

or the "driver / salesperson" 100 air mile exemption where 1/2 the time is spent driving with 60 hrs in 7 day week - no wonder people get confused? LOL