EOH conversion questions
 

OK guys with EOH, I need to be educated. 1997 Eagle tri-axle with surge drum brakes. I've gotten by with them due to minimal towing and use on easy local ramp. Now I will experience long steep ramps and more frequent towing and I HATE SURGE BRAKES! I AM going to convert to EOH. Currently considering BrakeRight I or II kits or Carlisle HydraStar HBA-10. But my main question is on controllers: how do they work backing DOWN a ramp? Seems most are inertia-sensing units, and so would not "detect" deceleration as you back down the ramp!!?? Am I missing something- like an override? I know there are units that respond to fluid PRESSURE and so would work at any angle...just don't want to spend $400 unless necessary (but I will if needed!)
Thanks for your help!

Dan

Check my recent thread...
http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/t...tml?highlight=

I used a Prodigy P3.

http://www.etrailer.com/Brake-Contro...Fa1cMgod-RMAZw

I used the Titan SD II Disc Brake Kit, and the Prodigy 3. I have brakes backing down the ramp

What was the estimated cost for changing over a triple axle to EOH from surge?

I build trailers and install EOH systems everyday. I can get you a unit for about $550 plus shipping. That's for a disc brake unit. Drum brake unit is less. If your existing plumbing is sound the unit is all you'll need.

I had to purchase several other things to do the install myself. Brackets, fasteners, brake fluid, wire, etc, etc. Some of the stuff I already had on hand, but had to fab up some brackets. I'm hoping to finish up tonight, if the rain holds out.

I am going to install myself, so no estimates...but...it looks like for me (your needs may vary): ...actuator ($550-700), in-cab controller ($125-350), breakaway battery setup ($75-100), plus any installation hardware-wiring, brackets,welding, etc. So it looks to be at or just under $1K doing it yourself...add $$$ to have it done in shop. payuppsucker seems to have the goods and helpful info!

Nice! Mine will remain a drums system. Are you quoting just an actuator or a kit? What brand unit are you quoting? Thanks for the reply!

Thanks for the info- was looking at this kit. Can you tell me about this kit... did they just separate the control module and add an adapter cable? I was trying to compare this to just installing the Titan actuator by itself ???

I've read every post on this subject on OSO,,,so much great information! I trust what I've read, just can't figure out how a proportional controller can sense any DECELERATION on a vehicle that is backing down a ramp !!?? Maybe the sensing device works in both directions as long as the brakes are applied. I've asked the question at Tekonsha...will share the answer for any other anal idiots that might want to know :confused:

Mine won't work unless I prime the system by removing the breakaway switch. It's weird. I know it says to test the breakaway but even having it hooked up to the truck the manual controller doesn't work until I prime it. Brakerite 2...

That's for a Dexter unit which in my opinion is the best available. I'll post prices on the Carlisle and Dexter both disc and drum later or in the morning.

Try bleeding you system again and make sure you have a ground wire DIRECT FROM THE UNIT TO THE NEGATIVE BATTERY TERMINAL. This is very important. We haul trailers on a 40 gooseneck and there was a long lag in the trailer brake unit building enough pressure to be effective until I installed the ground wire. Prior to that I had the unit grounded to the trailer frame but that wasn't sufficient. I'll check to make sure your controller is compatible with your brake unit. Not all are compatible. Which one do you have?

The prodigy 3 has a settings option specifically for hydraulic brakes. It will cause the unit to apply pressure to the brakes sitting still, no inertia needed.

When you decide what components you want let me know and I'll get pricing for you. You'll be well under $1000. For example, my break away kits cost me less than $30.

The unit itself does not turn on unless I follow those steps. Factory ford controller and brakerite 2

That's definitely not right! I think you might need the Ford SD adapter here: http://www.etrailer.com/p-T4845900.html
payuppsucker will confirm I'm sure.

Now that's what I need to know! I can't find that information anywhere in their descriptions. I've had several members say they have trailer brakes backing down a ramp with both Prodigy 2 and 3. Also just found this from Tekonsha sight..."Great for backing into tough spots! Works proportionally in reverse with the ability to disable when not needed" so the internal sensor must detect inertia both ways!

Excellent! I just want a quality compatible actuator, adequate breakaway kit, and either P2 or P3 controller with Tekonsha's 2004 Chevy Avalanche 2500 harness adapter. I think I can do it from there. Just looking for best pricing I can get!
Thanks!
Dan
Trailer= 1997 Eagle Tri-axle , drums on all 3 axles (3500lb)
Tow Vehicle= 2004 Avalanche 2500

It's not a matter of fluid or ground. It doesn't work unless I pull the breakaway and allow it to prime. The in can detects it the moment it is plugged it. The motor doesn't turn on unless I pull tr pin

I'm screwed! Just found out I have free-backing drum brakes...so they won't work in reverse anyway!!!! I can't see buying new drum backing plate/shoe kits...looks like I'll be converting to EOH disc after all! Good for the trailer and my safety...bad for the wallet!

I'll be very interested in seeing how your project goes. I currently have a 32ft Zieman trailer under my Advantage with surge brakes on two axles. When I bought the boat (used), I found out the current surge disc system was not working at all! (nearly sh$$ myself going 80 on the freeway!) Anyway, I replaced a brake line on the rear axle that was broken, but I still don't have "great" brakes. The way the actuator is mounted, I can't figure out how I would secure it(keep it from moving). I guess that would just take welding the whole unit up. I have a controller already in my truck, since I have a dual axle equipment trailer with electric brakes, I'm hoping when I decide to take the plunge to EOH, it will work with the new system. Pappysucker, where in TN are you? I would be interested in paying someone who knows what they are doing but don't want to drive halfway cross the country. I have found no one here in central AR that does this kind of work.

CrownHawg, If you have the prodigy 3 controller, it has settings for both EoH brakes and Electric. It stores up to 5 settings in memory. Great controller.

Not sure what kind of controller I have, I bought it at TSC to control my equipment trailer. I will check this afternoon though. Thanks!

I'll keep this thread open as I go. I'm not afraid to tackle this but was just hoping to get by with an EOH actuator kit and keep the drums. But a main concern is to have brakes while backing down ramp, so my existing free-brake drum setups won't work. I could just replace all the drum shoes for less $$, but it's one of those "might as well do it right" situations. I'll be doing this with the boat on the trailer so it will be a little dicey. I found a tandem Kodiak kit with EOH actuator at Etrailer...would still need another axle kit and a P3 controller...$$$$$$$$ :(

K71-650 Hyd Brake Actuator - $525, Prodigy P3 Controller - $148, Brake Away Kit - $30, plus shipping on all items.

I can get you a conversion kit to do that. Since you're going to discs I'd only put brakes on two axles but you'll have to make that call. Do you have 5,6, or 8 lug axles? BTW, the disc brakes require a 1600 psi actuator vs 1000 psi for the drums. There's no difference in the price.

I'm in Friendship, TN. About 250 miles from you.

The adapter that Dan posted the link to should square you away.

Oh I will be doing 3 axles! Brakes are one thing I would rather overkill than under equip. My whole point is to flat out NOT have to ever worry about braking again! Probably have to do something like this...http://www.etrailer.com/Trailer-Brak.../T4843800.html... or this..http://www.etrailer.com/p-T4843700.html ...and add another axle set and a P2 or P3 controller. whew! if you say it real fast its really not that expensive considering the improvement.

Those kits are 5 lug 3500 lb axle kits. Do you have 5 lug or 6 lug axles?

If you have 6 lug, check out these:

http://www.etrailer.com/dept-pg-Trai...pm-Kodiak.aspx

Yes 5 lug, 3500#, 10" disc/drum. Heard such good reviews on Kodiak...disappointed the kits have no hoses or bearings! The Titan kit has everything but I'm researching their reliability. Thanks for the post!

Hey Dan, I just thought of something. I have three 3500# disc brake axle that I pulled off my personal boat trailer when I switched to two 7000# axles. If the spring center and hub face measurements are the same I'd sell these complete axles or you could use the calipers, brackets, and rotors and put them on your axles. Save yourself some money if you're interested. The axles are in very good condition. Not sure what it'd be to ship the three axles but the parts shouldn't be too expensive too ship.

Man that is really nice of you to offer! I don't have any interest in changing the complete axles. If the components are in very good condition and we were sure they would fit, that could be cool. How old are they and when did you remove them? My concern would be the rotor surfaces and possible caliper piston seizure from sitting unused. I'm guessing shipping could be high due to weight. Give me their condition and some idea of what you would ask for them and it will be considered. I appreciate your thoughts and offer! I too will be selling my removed surge brakes, as the backing plates and master cylinder are fairly new!

They're in very good condition and have been sitting inside my shop on a pallet rack. They were new when I bought my boat and I only pulled it about 1000 miles total if that. PM me a number and I text some pics as soon as I have a chance to get them down.

Today, I finished my conversion over to Kodiak 13" disc brakes on two axles of a triple. I installed a Titan SD II system with a Prodigy III controller. I am amazed at how great these EOH systems will stop 12K. They recommend a power level of 6.0 ( 14.0 Max. ) and that locked up the tires. I am now down to 4.5 on a B-2 boost level.
These systems are worth EVERY penny. Like others have said I can't belive I waited so long to upgrade.

Rich

Great to hear! That's the equipment I am going with also. Since mine are only 10" I feel I should do all 3 axles and end any and all concerns about brakes! Its not that much more to add another axle. I'm hoping to keep the brake lines from the surge drums intact but will be getting disc kits that have new lines just in case...need the flexible hoses to attach to calipers anyway. Thanks for the post!

OK as promised, here's the answer I received from Tekonsha:

"Thank you for contacting Tech Support. I apologize for the delay in the reply. The P2 has a boost feature, that when engaged, will supply an instant voltage to the brakes when the brake pedal is depressed. This would be either 15% or 25%, depending on the boost setting you select. This will help create deceleration. If I can be anymore help please let me know"
........simple answer...most of you probably knew...I needed to understand and now I do!

Good info Danno!!!

"This will help create deceleration!!!

Yeah, it makes sense....a quick jolt on the brakes to start deceleration (adjustable to your trailer's weight) , then the sensor takes over. Answers my question of how the controller could ever sense deceleration when going backward down a ramp!