X Power Drive .... X-Power Drive ....XPowerdrive
02-13-2012, 01:00 PM
#21
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When you refer to the coupler, if sounds like you mean the drive shaft assembly itself. The u-joint assembly has been maintained in order to fit the bravo gimbal assembly. This was a big concern for us as in terms of outright numbers it didn't look as if it was robust enough. In the beginning we made our own very high tech (material wise) u-joint assemblies and tested them side by side with a standard assembly. In all the time we have never seen either fail. We have seen u-joint assemblies fail in the industry, but for different reasons, neglect, water, rust, etc, but if maintained properly they are amazingly strong. If you were talking about the coupler/spacer assembly to maintain the proper x dimension then that is a total non issue.
We have boats with and without boxes running the drive. The X power drive's propeller is already farther rearward to start with so it would already be like running a (don't quote me) 10 inch setback compared to a bravo, and a 4 inch further rearward than a number 6. We have done many boat conversions from bravo to X Power with no standoff boxes, and have always seen substantial speed gains. It is possible that had the customer installed stand off boxes we could have gained more.
You could spin a 19 in propeller in the shortest configuration. In terms of comparing to a surface style drive, the X Power is very much a surface style drive. We did months and months of CFD modeling on the lower unit in order to come up with a very efficient design for the lower unit, then we confirmed it in the wind tunnel. You should have seen some of the skeg designs, they were amazing and had far less drag, but in life we had to compromise mainly for stability on single engine designs. The early drives had a stainless removable skeg that you could try different designs, but was to costly.
Now comparing to bpm or asd I couldn't tell you as I didn't do a study on that. But we did use the number six, nxt, and imco lower units in our study and the information that you learn is pretty cool.
Here is a link to show our surface drive in action, and the efforts we go through to learn our product. Give it a minute to get going and you will see this is a run to 170mph
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AuDiYtGAp3U
I hope this information helps.
We have boats with and without boxes running the drive. The X power drive's propeller is already farther rearward to start with so it would already be like running a (don't quote me) 10 inch setback compared to a bravo, and a 4 inch further rearward than a number 6. We have done many boat conversions from bravo to X Power with no standoff boxes, and have always seen substantial speed gains. It is possible that had the customer installed stand off boxes we could have gained more.
You could spin a 19 in propeller in the shortest configuration. In terms of comparing to a surface style drive, the X Power is very much a surface style drive. We did months and months of CFD modeling on the lower unit in order to come up with a very efficient design for the lower unit, then we confirmed it in the wind tunnel. You should have seen some of the skeg designs, they were amazing and had far less drag, but in life we had to compromise mainly for stability on single engine designs. The early drives had a stainless removable skeg that you could try different designs, but was to costly.
Now comparing to bpm or asd I couldn't tell you as I didn't do a study on that. But we did use the number six, nxt, and imco lower units in our study and the information that you learn is pretty cool.
Here is a link to show our surface drive in action, and the efforts we go through to learn our product. Give it a minute to get going and you will see this is a run to 170mph
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AuDiYtGAp3U
I hope this information helps.
Thanks for addressing this thread with some great knowledge and explanations. I think most of us understand where you are coming from but even so just can not fathom the price.
Everything you have taught us, your entire web site, videos, and the whole principle behind the X-power drive "sounds" perfect. BUT we need to see it in real world applications. Some proof. Head to head comparison.
My whole purpose of this thread was FIRST....can we prove how good the X-power drive is? Once we know how great it is THEN we can start to argue the price, or agree with it!
Everything you have taught us, your entire web site, videos, and the whole principle behind the X-power drive "sounds" perfect. BUT we need to see it in real world applications. Some proof. Head to head comparison.
My whole purpose of this thread was FIRST....can we prove how good the X-power drive is? Once we know how great it is THEN we can start to argue the price, or agree with it!
Here is my take on the price, I won't mention the SXC-4 here, since it's so new.
If the price is around 35k as explained, well things are looking pretty good. An Indy costs 36k listing and is rated for 1000hp. Look into the ASD#7M, it's less, but not that different. This is also about realism. Should one ask himself, whether or not he has the money to run 1000+ hp motors, if he can't afford a drive that is storng enough? It kinda becomes like car tuning is today. Everyone can make a car live with 800-1000 hp these days, but you need to adress chassis, tranny, brakes, aerodynamics ect. that is what makes it expensive. Big power motors have become cheaper and more reliable than ever, so more folks are building them. Some drives have become better and there are more choices than before, but they come at a price.
The problem with the Bravo stuff is the way it is adressed. Sould one consider upping their power less and have the speed increase be part of the drive change? IMO yes. What does many do? They build 800-1000+ hp motors at a pretty substantial price, and then pour 30k+ into two IMCO, BMax ect. drives that rob speed over an XR and still have issues.
So what about this then. Building a 600-800 hp motor at a lesser cost, spend some more on a drive that power for power alone will add 5-10 mph, sometimes more, over the XR not to mention the speed difference over BMax, SCX ect. Get the speed increas from running a surface drive like the X-P, ASD or Indy and not by pouring large amounts of money and power into the upgraded Bravos. Should there be a cheaper option for the 600-850 hp market, yes. Is there one? Yes, the ASD#6 kit rated for 750 ft.lbs and the bigger ASD#7M rated for 850 ft.lbs. Also worth to remember is the fact that the ASD #6 and #7 can be run with Bravo style props, so running an ASD does not mean spending 10000+k on props for the smaller boats, looking for better drives. All this being said, would an X-Power lite be nice and is there a need for one? Absolutely, especially considering the ease of installation. Not that the ASD kits are the worlds biggest nightmare in terms of the intall itself, but it's not a one day plug and play deal for sure. Going to a surface drive, no matter which one, will take time and dialing in. Long live prop test programs.
Just my o2
Last edited by A.O. Razor; 02-13-2012 at 01:53 PM.
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I'CE (06-22-2021)
02-13-2012, 01:04 PM
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If we could get them type of gains with a drive then we are on par for what we expect to get out of a $75000 twin engine build package.
Last edited by Jason3603; 02-13-2012 at 01:06 PM.
02-13-2012, 01:19 PM
#23
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Thanks for addressing this thread with some great knowledge and explanations. I think most of us understand where you are coming from but even so just can not fathom the price.
Everything you have taught us, your entire web site, videos, and the whole principle behind the X-power drive "sounds" perfect. BUT we need to see it in real world applications. Some proof. Head to head comparison.
My whole purpose of this thread was FIRST....can we prove how good the X-power drive is? Once we know how great it is THEN we can start to argue the price, or agree with it!
Everything you have taught us, your entire web site, videos, and the whole principle behind the X-power drive "sounds" perfect. BUT we need to see it in real world applications. Some proof. Head to head comparison.
My whole purpose of this thread was FIRST....can we prove how good the X-power drive is? Once we know how great it is THEN we can start to argue the price, or agree with it!
02-13-2012, 07:32 PM
#24
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I'd b all over the ASD if it was closer to a plug and play, prop trials and the transom mods are tolerable, but moving he engines doesn't work for me. I want a drive that replaces the Bravo, runs #6 props, doesn't rob HP, doesn't weigh 4 times as much, is a plug and play, is reasonably priced (less than 50% of the current boats value), can handle 1,000 hp and doesn't break.
02-14-2012, 01:23 AM
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i'd b all over the asd if it was closer to a plug and play, prop trials and the transom mods are tolerable, but moving he engines doesn't work for me. I want a drive that replaces the bravo, runs #6 props, doesn't rob hp, doesn't weigh 4 times as much, is a plug and play, is reasonably priced (less than 50% of the current boats value), can handle 1,000 hp and doesn't break.
02-16-2012, 10:16 AM
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I'd b all over the ASD if it was closer to a plug and play, prop trials and the transom mods are tolerable, but moving he engines doesn't work for me. I want a drive that replaces the Bravo, runs #6 props, doesn't rob HP, doesn't weigh 4 times as much, is a plug and play, is reasonably priced (less than 50% of the current boats value), can handle 1,000 hp and doesn't break.
Jeff
02-16-2012, 10:37 PM
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Interesting.
The X Power Drive directly replaces the bravo drive with no necessary modifications, it runs #6 props, it only takes 11.5 hp to turn the drive 7000rpm which is by far the least parasitic loss of any available drive today, it only weighs a bit more than the bravo I'm sort of embellishing this point but the bravo weighs something like 60+ lbs, and the X Power weighs 202 and the #6 weighs 645lbs. The X Power handles 1500 + hp with warranty, and the price is cheaper than Ilmore, and cheaper than then the number 6. 6 out of 7 is not bad.
The X Power Drive directly replaces the bravo drive with no necessary modifications, it runs #6 props, it only takes 11.5 hp to turn the drive 7000rpm which is by far the least parasitic loss of any available drive today, it only weighs a bit more than the bravo I'm sort of embellishing this point but the bravo weighs something like 60+ lbs, and the X Power weighs 202 and the #6 weighs 645lbs. The X Power handles 1500 + hp with warranty, and the price is cheaper than Ilmore, and cheaper than then the number 6. 6 out of 7 is not bad.
02-17-2012, 03:01 PM
#28
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Interesting.
The X Power Drive directly replaces the bravo drive with no necessary modifications, it runs #6 props, it only takes 11.5 hp to turn the drive 7000rpm which is by far the least parasitic loss of any available drive today, it only weighs a bit more than the bravo I'm sort of embellishing this point but the bravo weighs something like 60+ lbs, and the X Power weighs 202 and the #6 weighs 645lbs. The X Power handles 1500 + hp with warranty, and the price is cheaper than Ilmore, and cheaper than then the number 6. 6 out of 7 is not bad.
The X Power Drive directly replaces the bravo drive with no necessary modifications, it runs #6 props, it only takes 11.5 hp to turn the drive 7000rpm which is by far the least parasitic loss of any available drive today, it only weighs a bit more than the bravo I'm sort of embellishing this point but the bravo weighs something like 60+ lbs, and the X Power weighs 202 and the #6 weighs 645lbs. The X Power handles 1500 + hp with warranty, and the price is cheaper than Ilmore, and cheaper than then the number 6. 6 out of 7 is not bad.
02-17-2012, 07:09 PM
#29
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Price, Performance, Reliability
Pick two
X = Performance and Reliability
Bravo = Price and Performance
Arneson = Performance and Reliability
Paddle = Price and Reliability
Pick two
X = Performance and Reliability
Bravo = Price and Performance
Arneson = Performance and Reliability
Paddle = Price and Reliability
