Re: Comparable to Cig, Outerlimits, & Nortech
 

Having no first hand knowledge about the F4, but having owned both a Baja and a Sunsation, I will say the Baja rode much better, but was slower. Rigging of the two is comparable. I liked Baja's in gel graphics better than Sunsations paint ( personal opinion ). Baja had a full fiberglass molded rear seat instead of fiberglass and carpeted plywood like my Sunsation, Baja had pop up cleats, unlike the sunsation w/ the recessed cleats that hold water and collect dirt no matter how anal you are about keeping your boat clean. Sunsations cabin is nicer than Baja's boring setup. The dash / cabin entry on my Baja was superior in strength / fit / finish compared to the Sunsations. I don't know to what extent you can customize a Baja from the factory, whereas everything from power to paint to gauges can be customized at Sunsation, and Sunsations customer service is world class. I have not had the chance to look over an F4, but from what I have seen, they look very nice, wish I had gone to the AC show to see it first hand.

Re: Comparable to Cig, Outerlimits, & Nortech
 

The point of this thread is to compare the F-4 and the soon to come 38/39 to the OL/Cig/Nor-Tech market. The 32 SS and the 288 never have been and never will be players in that market. The F-4 is a totally different animal than a 32/288 in terms of construction, rigging, options, etc. Only time and real-world experience will tell if the Sunsation will become a player in the targeted market. For those that have not followed the inception of the F-4 from the beginning (from within the factory), are knowledgeable of the construction materials and building techniques, and have personally driven the boat to know first-hand of the boat's performance and ride, I would ask that you hold judgment of the boat until such time you have an opportunity to personally compare it to the upper-end brand of your choice.

Re: Comparable to Cig, Outerlimits, & Nortech
 

How can you crawl on a boat at a show and tell how it is made. All you are going to see is what is visible.
At a boat show, can you tell:
The lay up?
Coring?
Proper buiding technique?
Thickness of the hull?
Placement and thickness of all stringers?
How the fuel tank is mounted?
Thickness of hull?
All wiring and how it is secured?
Exposed FG in bilge?
How certain modules are tabbed in and if they are tabbed in well?
Are there voids in the lay up?

NO, all you can see is what the rigging is like and the finish the MFG wants you to see. If any MFG wants to imply they have a decent product, they will obviously do thier best in making what you CAN see - look as if they are a top notch builder. It's easy to run wires straight in the bilge and attach a clamp every 12". It's the small details that make a legendary builder. For example, Cig uses grease on just about every nut and bolt; so after a few years it is not dissolved by corrosion and it is still removable for any necessary service.

I have not owned a Sunny, but have ridden on one briefly. They SEEM like nice boats.
Now I have ridden my Cig extensively. There really aren't many boats that are comparable to a Cig. To compare a Sunny to a Cig, OL, NT etc., with out owning one of each is ignorant. Trying to say a boat like a Sunny is compare what you have "seen" from other marques at a boat show is a funny joke!

Re: Comparable to Cig, Outerlimits, & Nortech
 

Cigarette may not have the fastest hull, but they still remain as the best built performance boat, period.

Re: Comparable to Cig, Outerlimits, & Nortech
 

been on both, nice little boats.....are the 32's not built in the same factory as the f4??
are the 32's not built by the same people as the f4?
are the 32's built with different materials as the f4?

Re: Comparable to Cig, Outerlimits, & Nortech
 

Why isn't Sutphen ever mentioned. I think they are one of the better built boats . Maybe speed isn't great but everything else is. I understand I may sound biased but I've owned them for 17 years with no complaints.
PS. You can get the owner and builder on the phone when needed.

Re: Comparable to Cig, Outerlimits, & Nortech
 

And this is based on your extensive knowledge of how every offshore boat in america is built? NK

Re: Comparable to Cig, Outerlimits, & Nortech
 

I am talking overall. From hull layup to electricals. from rigging to fit and finish. Cigarette has been doing it for a long time and they do it well.

Re: Comparable to Cig, Outerlimits, & Nortech
 

The original quote from Drypipetiger, He said, "Our boat is not the cheapest boat out there but I think it is one of the best built in the market. Our competition is Cigarette,Outerlimits, and Nortech when it comes to an apple to apple comparison."

Yes, if you ASK a dealer to compare boats, of course they will. However, if you call Cigarette or a Cig/OL/Nt dealer, they're not going to say, "our boat is compairable to....."

The simple fact that any brand of boat has to sell themselves by comparing their strong points to ANY other brand of boat is enough for me not to want to buy said boat. Why wouldn't you just buy the boat they are compairing too?!

Re: Comparable to Cig, Outerlimits, & Nortech
 

The comparisons, other than the companies intention to compete in this high end market are really pointless in my opinion.

Have any of us piloted this new boat and compared it to the others?

It's like comparing cars perceived to be in the same league with 0 road time.

My Lamorghini was far supperior in every way from quality and performance to my Ferrari, my "first hand" owners personal opinon .

The Ferrari mystique and marketing machine left me quite dissapointed when compared to my Lambo.

And as much as my Cigarette was a quality built and very nice ride, a good bit of its marketing 101 in my oppinion.

I guess at this point we will have to wait and see how these new rigs perform and hold up for the next few years, they look to be a first class ride.