Please Vote! "stop The Epa" This Affects All Of Us
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05-04-2009, 09:33 PM
#12
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The problem is simple: Ethanol costs $1.05 to $1.09 total cost to wholesale delivery for the same BTUs as a gallon of gasoline. Gasoline wholesale is about $1.50 right now. As oil prices rebound, it will go up.
That cost is total cost: buy the land, grow the crops, drive the tractors around, distillation, shipping, paying taxes, EVERYTHING. Ethanol is cheap, that's why its making inroads in the world's energy markets.
In other words: pure gas is $2.50, 10% is $2.25, 100% is $1.50. I'm talking at BTU equivalence here.
Therefore, the ethanol percentage in fuel will go up, so prices stay down, and people will buy the product. No refinery will ever again make pure gasoline, because its too expensive. You won't pay extra for it, I won't pay extra for it, nobody will.
Don't ask for yesterday, its gone.
Your choices are:
1) Refuse to allow ethanol to be sold for boats. Yell and scream. Sue oil companies for selling fuel to boaters. Then there will soon be no fuel available to boaters. Take a chain saw and cut up your pride and joy, and go watch TV.
2) Get over it, use Ethanol fuels. Sure, maybe you will check your fuel filter for water like everyone who flies airplanes has always had to do. Maybe you'll need to put some additives in the fuel like anyone who ever uses a diesel engine has always had to do.
That cost is total cost: buy the land, grow the crops, drive the tractors around, distillation, shipping, paying taxes, EVERYTHING. Ethanol is cheap, that's why its making inroads in the world's energy markets.
In other words: pure gas is $2.50, 10% is $2.25, 100% is $1.50. I'm talking at BTU equivalence here.
Therefore, the ethanol percentage in fuel will go up, so prices stay down, and people will buy the product. No refinery will ever again make pure gasoline, because its too expensive. You won't pay extra for it, I won't pay extra for it, nobody will.
Don't ask for yesterday, its gone.
Your choices are:
1) Refuse to allow ethanol to be sold for boats. Yell and scream. Sue oil companies for selling fuel to boaters. Then there will soon be no fuel available to boaters. Take a chain saw and cut up your pride and joy, and go watch TV.
2) Get over it, use Ethanol fuels. Sure, maybe you will check your fuel filter for water like everyone who flies airplanes has always had to do. Maybe you'll need to put some additives in the fuel like anyone who ever uses a diesel engine has always had to do.
05-05-2009, 11:33 AM
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This will be a disaster.
Unless we all band together very quickly on this, you will be destroying your engines every time you fuel up. I also just want to point out guys, that anyone who voted Democrat or for Obama, this is what you've sown and we'll reap the misery together. The EPA will now move on every half-a__d environmental idea it can think up and know that the government will support them. The only person standing in the way of the EPA in past years was George W. May not have been the best President, but at least he knew that the liberals and socialists in the government agencies were not on the side of the American people. Your engines will come under severe governmental attack now - with support from Obama.
05-05-2009, 01:22 PM
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Everyone in California has been using E10 or E15 for years with no negative effect. I don't get this hysteria.
I had lots of problems with water in fuel when it was pure gasoline back in the 60's -- lousy gas docks.
There are things to worry about. Ethanol aint one of them.
I had lots of problems with water in fuel when it was pure gasoline back in the 60's -- lousy gas docks.
There are things to worry about. Ethanol aint one of them.
05-05-2009, 02:35 PM
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Everyone in California has been using E10 or E15 for years with no negative effect. I don't get this hysteria.
I had lots of problems with water in fuel when it was pure gasoline back in the 60's -- lousy gas docks.
There are things to worry about. Ethanol aint one of them.
I had lots of problems with water in fuel when it was pure gasoline back in the 60's -- lousy gas docks.
There are things to worry about. Ethanol aint one of them.
Plus in California your boats run all year! In the North/East they do not and its the lay over from the winter that becomes an issue. E10 will separate from gas. It is not an oil based fuel additive, it is water based. It also has is an alkline base that will cause corrosion.
All I know is I don't want to see E15 PERIOD!
The NMMA, Mercury Marine and Boat US would not be battleing this if it wasn't important.
05-05-2009, 03:52 PM
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Voted..........
05-05-2009, 09:08 PM
#19
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BAR ROOM ECONOMICS
Suppose that every day, ten men go out for a beer and the bill for all ten comes to $100.00. If they paid their bill in the same unfair way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this:
The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.
The fifth would pay $1.
The sixth would pay $3.
The seventh would pay $7.
The eighth would pay $12.
The ninth would pay $18.
The tenth man (The wealthiest) would pay $59.
So, that’s what they decided to do. The ten men drank in the bar every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until one day, the owner threw them the following curve “Since you are all such good customers,” he said, “I’m going to reduce the cost of your daily beer by 20 % (or $20.00).” The drinks for all ten men would now cost just $80.00. The men decided to pay the bill in the same usury way they always did, so:
The first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for free because they were poor.
The remaining six men who always paid realized that the $20.00 savings divided by six equaled $3.33 each, but if they subtracted that from each share:
The fifth man and the sixth man would each end up being paid to drink his beer.
So, the bar owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man’s bill by roughly the same amount, and he proceeded to work out the amounts each should pay. And so:
The fifth man, the poorest, like the first four, now would pay nothing and thus would receive a 100% savings.
The sixth man now paid only $2.00, no longer $3.00, a 33% savings
The seventh man now paid only $5.00, down from $7.00, a 28% savings.
The eighth man now paid only 9.00, down from $12.00, a 25% savings.
The ninth man now paid only $14.00, down from $18.00, a 22% savings.
And finally, the tenth man now paid $49.00 instead of $59.00, a 16% savings.
Each of the men was better off than before. Now the first five would drink for free!!
But inside the restaurant, the men began to compare their savings. “I only got a dollar out of the $20 declared the sixth man. He pointed to the tenth man, “but he got $10.00.” The fifth man agreed, “I only got a dollar, too, It’s unfair that the tenth man got ten times what I got.”
“That’s true!!” shouted the seventh man. “Why should he get $10.00 back when I only got two?” “THE WEALTHY GET ALL THE BREAKS!”
“WAIT A MINUTE,” yelled the first four men in unison. “WE DIDN’T GET ANYTHING AT ALL!” “THE SYSTEM EXPLOITS THE POOR!”
As they got angrier, the nine men surrounded the tenth (the wealthiest) and beat him up.
For obvious reasons, the next night the tenth man didn’t show up for drinks, so the nine remaining sat down and had beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something very important. They didn’t have enough money between all of them to pay for even half of the bill! And that, ladies and gentlemen, journalists and college professors, is how our tax system works.
The people who pay the highest taxes get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up anymore. In fact, they might start drinking overseas where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.
For those who understand, no explanation is needed. For those who do not understand, or who choose to not understand, no explanation is possible.
Suppose that every day, ten men go out for a beer and the bill for all ten comes to $100.00. If they paid their bill in the same unfair way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this:
The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.
The fifth would pay $1.
The sixth would pay $3.
The seventh would pay $7.
The eighth would pay $12.
The ninth would pay $18.
The tenth man (The wealthiest) would pay $59.
So, that’s what they decided to do. The ten men drank in the bar every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until one day, the owner threw them the following curve “Since you are all such good customers,” he said, “I’m going to reduce the cost of your daily beer by 20 % (or $20.00).” The drinks for all ten men would now cost just $80.00. The men decided to pay the bill in the same usury way they always did, so:
The first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for free because they were poor.
The remaining six men who always paid realized that the $20.00 savings divided by six equaled $3.33 each, but if they subtracted that from each share:
The fifth man and the sixth man would each end up being paid to drink his beer.
So, the bar owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man’s bill by roughly the same amount, and he proceeded to work out the amounts each should pay. And so:
The fifth man, the poorest, like the first four, now would pay nothing and thus would receive a 100% savings.
The sixth man now paid only $2.00, no longer $3.00, a 33% savings
The seventh man now paid only $5.00, down from $7.00, a 28% savings.
The eighth man now paid only 9.00, down from $12.00, a 25% savings.
The ninth man now paid only $14.00, down from $18.00, a 22% savings.
And finally, the tenth man now paid $49.00 instead of $59.00, a 16% savings.
Each of the men was better off than before. Now the first five would drink for free!!
But inside the restaurant, the men began to compare their savings. “I only got a dollar out of the $20 declared the sixth man. He pointed to the tenth man, “but he got $10.00.” The fifth man agreed, “I only got a dollar, too, It’s unfair that the tenth man got ten times what I got.”
“That’s true!!” shouted the seventh man. “Why should he get $10.00 back when I only got two?” “THE WEALTHY GET ALL THE BREAKS!”
“WAIT A MINUTE,” yelled the first four men in unison. “WE DIDN’T GET ANYTHING AT ALL!” “THE SYSTEM EXPLOITS THE POOR!”
As they got angrier, the nine men surrounded the tenth (the wealthiest) and beat him up.
For obvious reasons, the next night the tenth man didn’t show up for drinks, so the nine remaining sat down and had beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something very important. They didn’t have enough money between all of them to pay for even half of the bill! And that, ladies and gentlemen, journalists and college professors, is how our tax system works.
The people who pay the highest taxes get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up anymore. In fact, they might start drinking overseas where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.
For those who understand, no explanation is needed. For those who do not understand, or who choose to not understand, no explanation is possible.
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