Boat graphics
08-10-2002, 04:50 PM
#41
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OK, This is the "boat Graphics" thread in the aforementioned reply. I meant to refer to the "Paging all boat Painters" thread. Read that thread anfd you'll understand my reply better.
Mitch
Mitch
08-10-2002, 05:46 PM
#42
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micher t- i saw in one of your posts earlier that you use laqcuers for some of your fades and custom effects. have you tried any of the intercoat clears for this yet. i use PPG's DBC5ooo for all my blends/fades/shadows and have had great luck with it.its basically just a clear basecoat that you tint however you like. all the benifits of the base coats and gives you a tremendous ability to really burn in a blend. 
. any waay . .i just like talk'n shop with other pro's 
i have seen alot of your work and have always been been impressed with your attention to detail, still have a copy of that article in HOTBOAT somewhere.
one other thing what is your paint system of preferance . . i have been a PPG guy since day one.
. any waay . .i just like talk'n shop with other pro's i have seen alot of your work and have always been been impressed with your attention to detail, still have a copy of that article in HOTBOAT somewhere. one other thing what is your paint system of preferance . . i have been a PPG guy since day one.
08-10-2002, 05:48 PM
#43
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Boy , I must say ...I am impressed too !!Mitcher T!!Super work that you do,I've seen a bunch of your stuff at Premier and a friend bought a Checkmate there that you did.I work with a friend of yours Pete Bailey from Middleville that rants about some stuff he's seen you do too!I'll be sending you an e-mail to your site here shortly as I am in the midst of buying a mid 90's Powerquest and will be looking to cover up the pink/teal factory graphics(I liked your comment on working within a budget).Nice to see someone with your talent and "fame" hanging out and taking time to check on the everyday guys!
08-11-2002, 09:39 AM
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Hi Glassdave, I use R-M urethanes for my bases and Transtar clearcoat. I also use a lot of House of Kolor and DuPont chromabase. I've had nothing but good repoire with the reps and they watch my studio as a testing ground for the marine industry. I'm a little unorthodox with some of my techniques so they watch me pretty close for tips for some of the automotive shops, which is 99% of their clientele.
I only use a couple of the lacquers for washing hues into muraling on occasion, but yes, I do use the intercoats and the urethanes from Chromabase most of the time.
I only use a couple of the lacquers for washing hues into muraling on occasion, but yes, I do use the intercoats and the urethanes from Chromabase most of the time.
08-11-2002, 09:51 AM
#45
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Rick C, I'm an everyday guy, too, I believe Pete will back that up, he's a great guy.
I have a great team here, and we work as such, they deserve a lot of credit for the quality standards we try desperately to maintain on a really hectic schedule. I'm really fortunate to have their loyalty and talent beside me.
We also have fantastic support from our Factory sponsors, their professionalism has a great role in this industry.
There is a lot lot of great talent out there, a tremendous amount of work goes into being a graphic artist, as Glassdave will surely attest. (You do super work, dude) I'd like to see your work in person, have only seen photos so far!
I have a great team here, and we work as such, they deserve a lot of credit for the quality standards we try desperately to maintain on a really hectic schedule. I'm really fortunate to have their loyalty and talent beside me.
We also have fantastic support from our Factory sponsors, their professionalism has a great role in this industry.
There is a lot lot of great talent out there, a tremendous amount of work goes into being a graphic artist, as Glassdave will surely attest. (You do super work, dude) I'd like to see your work in person, have only seen photos so far!
08-11-2002, 01:24 PM
#46
mitch- thanks for the compliment. you are certainly right about the amount of work that goes into being a graphic artist. sometimes it can be very mentaly frustrating if the lines are just not laying out. i am also quite unorthodox in my techniques. my paint reps say that if i ever tried follow'n the rules THAN i would have problems. . funny how you know how to make the systems work for you
actually the boat graphics are somthing that i started doing not to long ago. so i've only got a hand full of them out there, maybe a dozen or so. being a boater my whole life it seemed like the thing to do. most of my work to date has been primarilly classic auto restorations and custom street rods. hey . . . .where ever the fun is at ya know.
i got another question for you . . .if ya dont mind me picking your brain . i use PPG's base/clear system (DBC/2021) and that requires all base colors to be cleared within 24 hours and that is a rule that cant be flexed without possible adhesion problems. i deal with this time frame by carefully schudeling layouts and stacking of graphics so that no base stays open for more than 24hrs. some times this can be quite a chore and i have had more than a few ocasions where i have painted for up to the whole 24hrs straight on some of the bigger jobs. although i dont actually mind that because i do some of my best work under pressure 
just wondering how other graphic guys delt with this or actually if other paint systems had similar time framesto deal with. thanks,Dave.
heres a cig i did 2 years ago
. funny how you know how to make the systems work for you actually the boat graphics are somthing that i started doing not to long ago. so i've only got a hand full of them out there, maybe a dozen or so. being a boater my whole life it seemed like the thing to do.
most of my work to date has been primarilly classic auto restorations and custom street rods. hey . . . .where ever the fun is at ya know. i got another question for you . . .if ya dont mind me picking your brain
. i use PPG's base/clear system (DBC/2021) and that requires all base colors to be cleared within 24 hours and that is a rule that cant be flexed without possible adhesion problems. i deal with this time frame by carefully schudeling layouts and stacking of graphics so that no base stays open for more than 24hrs. some times this can be quite a chore and i have had more than a few ocasions where i have painted for up to the whole 24hrs straight on some of the bigger jobs. although i dont actually mind that because i do some of my best work under pressure just wondering how other graphic guys delt with this or actually if other paint systems had similar time framesto deal with. thanks,Dave.heres a cig i did 2 years ago
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08-11-2002, 02:46 PM
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Hey Glassdave, I don't know what your problem is....... I did CASINO RUNNER in a day!!!!!!
Just Kidding!!!!!!
Actually, Casino took 6 weeks of hard work. We did other jobs on regular schedule with it, but it was a lot of work.
OK, to answer your question about open time. I personally consider it a fallacy.
I'll be hung from a yardarm for saying it by all the reps, etc. out there. But here's my philosophy on the issue.
Yes, we break every rule out there that has been establis
hed by the manufacturers. We have to press the limits, that's what we do best. Hey, do you really take 2 tylenol when you get a pounding headache, yeah right?
For years I couldn't even get a rep to stop at my studio, they knew about my reputation, and by doing so they were hanging themselves out to dry if there was a problem. So I experimented by myself.
I used DuPont for years, I have never met a rep, yet from there. I switched to BASF when Ken Gomer was courageous enough to stand behind his words. He has ALWAYS come thru with flying colors. I called him on a Sunday with a problem once, and he was at my doorstep at 7 am the next morning, gave up a golf outing that we were both supposed to appear at, and was with me for 2 full days to make sure all was right. He also admitted that the problem was his fault (and BASF's) immediately. Never tried to mask his way out of it. He earned my respect right away.
OK, enough about that.
The base/clear system was formulated for the auto production shop so that a vehicle could be sprayed and cleared one coat right after the other.
The urethane base and the polyurethane clear chemically combine with each other to create the finished layer of product. Because a lacquer required a dryout time for the thinners to evaporate, and the same with a lacquer clearcoat, the production shop bottlenecked all of their vehicles waiting for the paint to harden out.
So along comes the polies.....they don't take a thinner, they require a basemaker or reducer which is actually part of the product. A catalyst chemically gets it all to come together, and in the same manner as a bondo becomes hard chemically and not due to evaporation. The finished poly won't shrink up over time as does a lacquer, so doesn't require constant babysitting to maintain the polish. The poly is sandable and able to be polished on an average of 6 to 8 hours after the application under most normal conditions, and is out the door as soon as possible. What a wonderful thing.
So because of the intent of how the paint was designed to be used, the clear was (recommended) to be cleared within 24 hours (same day painting technique) A manufacturer won't stand behind the usage outside of the window because of that design.
(It also limits their liability, you didn't hear that from me) But truth be told, because of the fact that the reducers do in fact evaporate, you have lost a part of the equation of the formula.
If I'm concerned about adhesion, I may apply a kisscoat of adhesion promoter over the previous bases, but as of yet.............I have NEVER had an adhesion problem with bases left up to a year in the open. (honest!!)
I have a lot more on this philosophy, but I would have to kill you all that read this, and I'm probably out of alotted space anyhow.
So there you have it.
Just Kidding!!!!!!
Actually, Casino took 6 weeks of hard work. We did other jobs on regular schedule with it, but it was a lot of work.
OK, to answer your question about open time. I personally consider it a fallacy.
I'll be hung from a yardarm for saying it by all the reps, etc. out there. But here's my philosophy on the issue.
Yes, we break every rule out there that has been establis
hed by the manufacturers. We have to press the limits, that's what we do best. Hey, do you really take 2 tylenol when you get a pounding headache, yeah right?
For years I couldn't even get a rep to stop at my studio, they knew about my reputation, and by doing so they were hanging themselves out to dry if there was a problem. So I experimented by myself.
I used DuPont for years, I have never met a rep, yet from there. I switched to BASF when Ken Gomer was courageous enough to stand behind his words. He has ALWAYS come thru with flying colors. I called him on a Sunday with a problem once, and he was at my doorstep at 7 am the next morning, gave up a golf outing that we were both supposed to appear at, and was with me for 2 full days to make sure all was right. He also admitted that the problem was his fault (and BASF's) immediately. Never tried to mask his way out of it. He earned my respect right away.
OK, enough about that.
The base/clear system was formulated for the auto production shop so that a vehicle could be sprayed and cleared one coat right after the other.
The urethane base and the polyurethane clear chemically combine with each other to create the finished layer of product. Because a lacquer required a dryout time for the thinners to evaporate, and the same with a lacquer clearcoat, the production shop bottlenecked all of their vehicles waiting for the paint to harden out.
So along comes the polies.....they don't take a thinner, they require a basemaker or reducer which is actually part of the product. A catalyst chemically gets it all to come together, and in the same manner as a bondo becomes hard chemically and not due to evaporation. The finished poly won't shrink up over time as does a lacquer, so doesn't require constant babysitting to maintain the polish. The poly is sandable and able to be polished on an average of 6 to 8 hours after the application under most normal conditions, and is out the door as soon as possible. What a wonderful thing.
So because of the intent of how the paint was designed to be used, the clear was (recommended) to be cleared within 24 hours (same day painting technique) A manufacturer won't stand behind the usage outside of the window because of that design.
(It also limits their liability, you didn't hear that from me) But truth be told, because of the fact that the reducers do in fact evaporate, you have lost a part of the equation of the formula.
If I'm concerned about adhesion, I may apply a kisscoat of adhesion promoter over the previous bases, but as of yet.............I have NEVER had an adhesion problem with bases left up to a year in the open. (honest!!)
I have a lot more on this philosophy, but I would have to kill you all that read this, and I'm probably out of alotted space anyhow.
So there you have it.
08-11-2002, 04:15 PM
#50
. . . i like yer style mitch . . . . . come ta think of it , i have had some stuff go over time and have yet to have any problems. . . .you know some of those paint reps though. they wont tell you any thing thats not in the book or on the can some times i wonder if some of em have evan waved a gun in there life. yep, ya find what works for you an stick with it i have been considering pushing my open times further to give me more creative time but needed to here it from someone that actually has experiance with big jobs like these.
please dont kill me as i've swiped many tips from this thread already an oh boy have i got some philosophy's . . .they just sort of develop on there own after you've done this stuff for a while
. . come ta think of it , i have had some stuff go over time and have yet to have any problems. . . .you know some of those paint reps though. they wont tell you any thing thats not in the book or on the can some times i wonder if some of em have evan waved a gun in there life. yep, ya find what works for you an stick with it i have been considering pushing my open times further to give me more creative time but needed to here it from someone that actually has experiance with big jobs like these. please dont kill me as i've swiped many tips from this thread already
an oh boy have i got some philosophy's . . .they just sort of develop on there own after you've done this stuff for a while
