at100plus

One more thing, Greenpeace is slanted towards the oil industry? That was just one of my many resources.

You never did tell us where you got your facts. Show me a reference for example that supports your assertion that ethanol blended fuel lasts longer burns slower or has a greater range. Is it just from your independent studies on your farm?

Payton

This is getting silly. Why are you twisting my words? Where did I say that Grean Peace is slanted toward the oil industry?

I guees my "facts" are my own use of ethenol for the last 8-10 years. 5 of those years have been use in a performance boat.

Talk to race engine shops that build engines that run on alcohol . The engines run cooler, in fact so cool that some of the racers fill the engine block water jackets, then run no cooling system.
There is more energy in a gallon of gas than a gallon of alcohol. The same that there is more energy in 87 octane gas than in 89 octane gas. That is why you have to run higher octane gas in a higher compession engine. If you run 87 octane in an 10:1 compression engine the engine will detonate itself to an early grave. Detonation is when the compression ignites the air fuel mixture instead of the spark igniting it.
With that in mind. Gasohol works the same way. In a 10% blend you will lose a little of the energy of that gallon of gas. Same as raising the octane rating. Gasohol doesn't create more heat. It creates less. It takes more heat (compression) to get the same energy. The same as it takes more compression to get the same power out of 89 octane as you can out of 87 octane.

Hey, I am a boater too. I am not trying to sell ethanol. I am not trying to pass legeslation. By investing in the ethanol plant that i did I am hopeing to add to my retirement income 20 years or so from now.

I still say Skater should step up to the plate with new tanks for your boat.

actually what I explained was preignition not detonation.

at100plus

You said "Where ever you are getting your info is slanting it toward the oil industry. The facts aren't exactly correct" Didn't you? I pointed out that Greenpeace, (one of my sources) is by no means an oil industry slanted source. I didn't twist your words.

Let's review in simple terms:

1. Corrosive to metals
2. Dissolves and has a cleaning effect on fuel systems that
could clog fuel filters, damage pumps, injectors seals
or other fuel system components.
3. Reduced gas mileage and range
4. Attracts water
5. Conducts Electricity
6. Produces toxic, biohazardous, carcinogenic elements
in certain circumstances.
7. Expensive to produce, cannot be piped (has to be trucked)
will cost the taxpayer both in terms of tax dollars
used to build facilities, and tax breaks to the distributors
in order to sell at prices competitive with standard
gasoline.

Which one of these characteristics do you refute and what information do you have that supports it being inaccurate?

You have yet to even prove scientifically that ethanol produces better gas mileage. You're a farmer planning to retire on ethanol investments and you assure me that it won't hurt my boat or my car and that you get better gas mileage in your farm vehicles. Somehow I'm just not buying it. If I can't run E85 in my car without modifications, then I sure as hell don't want the same stuff in my car or boat just in smaller quantities.

Anyone else agree?

at100plus

Maybe I'm reading this wrong but doesn't this support the notion that Ethanol gets poorer gas mileage?

Ethanol = less energy / less heat, but you need more heat to get the energy that gasoline of the same octane rating has?

Refer to post # 15 Ethanol has an "increased burn rate"

Payton

I stand corrected MOST of your sources. Who knows where Green Peace is slanted, Certainly not in favor of high performance boating.


Again the E85!! What you are talking is E10, A 10% blend not E85 an 85% blend. You went back to the original question before, that was about E10.
That about takes care of #1 and 2

#3 In on of our PMs I may have said I get better milage with B2 a 2% blend of soy oil and diesel fuel. I never said better milage with a 10% blend of Ethanol. I given my above example, I wouldn't expect better milage. If your boat engine is safe to run on 89 octane gas. You will see less mileage and range if you run a tank full of 91 octane. For the exact same reason.

I agree, it atracts water. Do you leave your Skater in the water?

You think the oil industry has no tax insentives??

I would like to see that Gasoline won't conduct electricity. Water will, why wouldn't gas?

Is ethanol the end all savior to the energy problem? No. Is it an improvment over blending in MTBE? Yes.

I would be stupid to expect to retire on one single investment. Just like I would be stupid to expect S.S. to give me the retirement that I would like.

at100plus

Are these things good for the marine environment?

It doesn't have to be in the water, it can be near the water, it can be humid outside or raining and under a tarp....It's not about my boat it's about ALL boats.

The research is about Ethanol, E85 or E10 is just a matter of concentration. I've seen first hand that E10 dissolves rubber seals and if dissolves the lining in Skater tanks. That's enough concentration for me. BTW Skater is making good on their tanks.

Gasonline is an insulator not a conductor. Comparing it to water tells you nothing, gasoline burns and water doesn't.

cropfarmer

Fellows your both right your just arguing over the pros and cons of ethanol, lets get back to the tread on the merc. 496.

at100plus

There are pros and cons. I definitely understand the pros to agricultural economic stimulation and alternative to middle east supply, however with respect to that 496, I'm saying the cons far outweigh the pros, and if you have those 496s in a Skater or other boat with built in tanks you can multiply that 100 fold.

cropfarmer

100 plus, I under your problem it seems to be a skater issue not a 496 issue.

at100plus

If you look down that list, most of them will affect any boat, 496 or 25 Johnson, doesn't matter.

But is looks like Mess doesn't care for the answer to his 496 question, only Cropfarmers are concerned when the cons are spoken about ethanol.