Off the shelf cam options for marine engines
02-17-2016, 04:32 PM
#391
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I meant as in see why YOU have the intent to make me look bad and see what your agenda is, you are the issue here, not us.... I love how you avoid the actual issues but will say some of us are wrong about Bob... go to my thread then, My whole thing is trying to avoid this on this thread....
02-17-2016, 04:41 PM
#393
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you are making it more then it is, lets just say for one second you spent over 30 grand on engines, then find out they make the boat SLOWER then before, after Bob said 700 hp and will be WAY better then my old engines, then find out they are not, would you not try to get to the bottom of why not? Now I see that someone says the numbers are skewed? well the boat is SLOWER then it was with 598HP engines so how can that be true?
dude bottom line is Bob did not deliver, and if was anyone else it would be no big deal, god forbid Bob messed up... if you are so smart why don't you tell me why I don't see even close to 700 hp?
Take it to PM I will have it out with you, I don't feel like being banned because you think we are out to make Bob look bad...
dude bottom line is Bob did not deliver, and if was anyone else it would be no big deal, god forbid Bob messed up... if you are so smart why don't you tell me why I don't see even close to 700 hp?
Take it to PM I will have it out with you, I don't feel like being banned because you think we are out to make Bob look bad...
I think some or many think that everyone that doesn't speak up against bob is an ally, but most of us have never had any contact with him .
Again just my observation, and its really detracting from a great thread and making foes out people who j6st want to enjoy life and talk about their hobby. Cheers!
02-17-2016, 04:49 PM
#394
I could be totally wrong, but I'm pretty sure that everyone knows the deal and is just plain sick and tired of hearing it hashed over again and again! I feel you're pain, that would be really devastating for most of us , but ... at some point just move on.
I think some or many think that everyone that doesn't speak up against bob is an ally, but most of us have never had any contact with him .
Again just my observation, and its really detracting from a great thread and making foes out people who j6st want to enjoy life and talk about their hobby. Cheers!
I think some or many think that everyone that doesn't speak up against bob is an ally, but most of us have never had any contact with him .
Again just my observation, and its really detracting from a great thread and making foes out people who j6st want to enjoy life and talk about their hobby. Cheers!
02-17-2016, 04:49 PM
#395
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My situation was brought up as an example, nothing more, then we are hearing the numbers were skewed... I am over it for the most part but others make me repeat myself. I have no reason besides learning more that's it, my stuff is what it is and is not changing lesson learned that's all
02-17-2016, 05:16 PM
#396
Geronimo36
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Just a few examples of quotes on this thread and why it was destined to go sideways.... Full Force, I don't care about making you look good or bad, just sick and tire of hearing bob bashing on every thread by the same people over and over again.
[B
I had a few take out zz502 cams on the shelf, so I swapped one in on a low rpm jet boat deal in place of the custom cam that was causing lifter issues. I figured it had to have a pretty stable lobe because it could run so much less spring pressure, and I was willing to give up some power from the greatly reduced lift. Surprise, it made more torque, and seven more hp.
I had a customer who had purchased some custom cams for himself, and was on his second set of lifters, had multiple broken snap rings on his rockers, one trunion broken in half, and had damaged a valve stem from the lifter bleeding down at higher rpm, this was after about 25 or 30 hours. I had had excellent results with Lunati solid rollers in the past, so I picked up their catalog to check out their hyd rollers. I chose a cam with almost identical duration as the custom cam, but opened the exhaust valve just a little later, and a fair bit less lift. That probably will give up a bit of power on a computer simulator, but in reality, especially in a blown application it can help parts stay alive. We dyno'd the engine with the custom cam, and experimented a bit to see what was going on with the lifters. We pulled the cam on the dyno, and swapped in the Lunati. It made 90hp more, egts were better, it idled cleaner, lifters were quiet, etc. Same day, same dyno, same lifters. It confirmed a lot of my suspicions.
No Mike, it was easier just to swap the cam and move on. Discussions of spalling, damaged wheels, lifters, etc. didn't really go anywhere, and when there was an issue on the dyno it would just turn into swapping and upgrading parts until it worked; no real search for the root cause. To call back and say "I swapped the cam and made more power", probably wouldn't have helped any.
Excellent point. One of the most common causes of frustration I hear from users of custom cams that don't perform as advertised is, after informing the designer of their expensive cam that was custom designed specifically for their combo, they are told they need to upgrade lifters, pushrods, rocker arms, exhaust, carb's too small, prop's too big, etc. in order to make the power. All that stuff was supposed to be taken in to consideration by the cam designer originally, hence the price for the custom part.
02-17-2016, 05:21 PM
#398
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I always wondered this as well. Higher lifter loads but lesser lifter travel. Interesting to see where this goes. So for marine is it always better to run the 1.7 ratios? Or on a more mild cam where spring pressures aren't that high be able to use the shorter travel factory style dogbone gen 6 lifters. Say in a simple stock CR, stock bottom end 502? Wondering for my next boat.......wanting to keep fairly stock 502 mpi, add pro flo intakes, better cam, enginequest 320 heads. Plan is to procharged them eventually but would prob run for a season or two NA.
Also, rember that the lifter's ratio not only increases 'lift' to the valve from what is seen at the lifter, but it also increases the valve spring loads back to the lifter. The rocker arm provides leverage as it's an arm. What happens at the valve/valvespring will be amplified going back to the lifter / cam lobe.
Hard for me to type things. LOL.
02-17-2016, 05:22 PM
#399
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Why don't we just try getting back to tech stuff. If you had a good experience with a crane cam, post it! If you had bad experience with a crane cam, post it! There were threads years back about crane cams breaking at the gear. I didnt see any Crane fans coming out saying "you guys are just trying to ruin cranes reputation". If a guy is breaking comp cams rockers, say so. If you are dropping valve seats out of your Dart heads, say so.
If someone has had an issue with Marine Kinetics from a technical standpoint, they should be allowed to say so, and not be labeled liars for doing so. That goes with any company. There are thousands of threads here with parts failures, and brand names mentioned, but any time "bob" is mentioned in a negative way, people come running to his defense, without the facts, or simply because they "like" him. Well, I like Jiffy peanut butter. If you came here and said you opened up you jar of jiffy this morning, and there was a pile of human feces in it, should I blast you for doing so? or should i think, "dam, this guy got chit in his peanut butter, I wonder if others have got chit in their peanut butter too".
This is a tech forum, not the Chamber of commerce, or yelp. This entire forum is supposed to be about tech advice, and sharing info, so that we all can have more time on the water, and less time on the trailer.
Lets put the emotions aside. If someone has a legitimate issue, from a technical standpoint, the floor is open for both parties to respond. If you had good results with bobs cams, simply say you did, and leave it at that. You don't need to be discrediting every person who has. There are quite a few who are wanting to share their experiences, but are afraid to come on here and do so. Maybe its just me, maybe I'm a little stupid, but I would rather hear all the stories, not just some. When you read an online review about a refridgerator you are about to purchase, do you only read the 5 star reviews, or do you scroll down and see what the people who gave it a 2 star review have to say? Would it be fair if they deleted all the negative reviews?
If someone has had an issue with Marine Kinetics from a technical standpoint, they should be allowed to say so, and not be labeled liars for doing so. That goes with any company. There are thousands of threads here with parts failures, and brand names mentioned, but any time "bob" is mentioned in a negative way, people come running to his defense, without the facts, or simply because they "like" him. Well, I like Jiffy peanut butter. If you came here and said you opened up you jar of jiffy this morning, and there was a pile of human feces in it, should I blast you for doing so? or should i think, "dam, this guy got chit in his peanut butter, I wonder if others have got chit in their peanut butter too".
This is a tech forum, not the Chamber of commerce, or yelp. This entire forum is supposed to be about tech advice, and sharing info, so that we all can have more time on the water, and less time on the trailer.
Lets put the emotions aside. If someone has a legitimate issue, from a technical standpoint, the floor is open for both parties to respond. If you had good results with bobs cams, simply say you did, and leave it at that. You don't need to be discrediting every person who has. There are quite a few who are wanting to share their experiences, but are afraid to come on here and do so. Maybe its just me, maybe I'm a little stupid, but I would rather hear all the stories, not just some. When you read an online review about a refridgerator you are about to purchase, do you only read the 5 star reviews, or do you scroll down and see what the people who gave it a 2 star review have to say? Would it be fair if they deleted all the negative reviews?
02-17-2016, 05:28 PM
#400
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Panther, your not bringing any knowledge of cam's to this thread just stirring the pot, so maybe you should be the next to go
I will go on record to say I have MK spec'd pistons, cams, lifters and cylinder heads in my Smith built 540's and outside the lifters being a little noisy at times I have had Zero issues with them, the power was right on the number and the torque was a little higher than expected,
I will go on record to say I have MK spec'd pistons, cams, lifters and cylinder heads in my Smith built 540's and outside the lifters being a little noisy at times I have had Zero issues with them, the power was right on the number and the torque was a little higher than expected,
Last edited by F-2 Speedy; 02-17-2016 at 05:39 PM.
