BenPerfected

Ron,
Dead on point. There is a huge opportunity for class consolidation with parity. You are an x-racer with a lot of knowledge and experience. You also have a lot of respect in the Offshore community. Why not take my idea as a base and propose the "solution" for the offshore weekend racer.
Sprague

Greg,
These are the issues I have with P-Class. There is not a consistant method to control class placement. Some/many/most/all P-Class boats are capable of exceeding the class maximum class speed and they throttle (with some pretty creative methods) to not exceed the break point. For me, this throttling or holding back exercise removes the fun. The second issue is there are too many classes for not enough boats.
How do we as racers get the racers and sanctioning bodies together? Maybe if the weekend racer got our act together, we would be included with the "big boys". It is important that we don't distract from the Super Class's agenda but add to value to the events. Maybe the weekend racer can be the catalyst in leading Offshore to consolidation.
Sprague

PClassExpert

Unification or diversification is not within the control of any sanctioning body but a choice made by the participants.

merlin540

Well Then Lets Bring Back Modified And I Will Run 135 In A Open Boat

Peconic

There is a great and very worthwhile idea in this discussion, and that is called handicapping a race. A horse wins a race, horse will run with more weight under the saddle the next race. Makes for highjly inyteresting and very unpredictable races.

It has worked for centuries in other sports like horse racing, or golf, or whathaveyou.

It is being used in other boat races. Why not here? You win a race, you get 100 RPM less the next race. Or you use a fuel restrictor.

RMS Super V #2

Sprague:

P-Class is really even more powerful than you think, and those of us who have been around awhile know it.

Look at all of what you are calling the "Bog Boys", almost every single one of them started out in P-Class. Very few build a limited use, class conforming boat out of the box.

With the average lifespan (time in the sport) of the so called "Big Guys" being only a few years, there would probably be no replacements without the P-Class opportunity.

Is throttling back a bad thing, I'm not sure. It removes the fun for you, OK, I understand that. There may be people who prefer to run thier equipment at 80% capacity to save it for the next race. Is the GPS contol not enough ?, if you break out, you get tossed out, right ?.

I don't think its completly fair to overregulate it. One suggestion in this thread is to keep slowing the winners down each time they win. So, in essence, there are no rewards for better setup, or more honed skill level because you actually get penalized for that.

Boat count, boat count, boat count... we all complain about it, and rightfully so. The promoters and race producers are really the ones who are the most damaged by it, or the lack of it.

Yet we (the racers) can't even bring ourselves to agree to one single race where we all participate.

A month ago I started a thread to suggest we pick one race and all go there, it got some attention, but didn't produce a big committment.

I'm in favor of reducing the number of classes, provided you still keep the competiton tight. Of course with P-Class, I think one of the attractions to is that you will "find a place" for whoever shows up and wants to race, so I think that is at least partially why we have ended up with so many P classes.

PClassExpert wrote:

"Unification or diversification is not within the control of any sanctioning body but a choice made by the participants"

As I think you have seen by the creation of the "OSS" today. and "PROPS" before them, and , many, many others, they are really one and the same. Short of departures in droves to "fix" learking problems, which unifies nothing, Unification will indeed start with the Sanctioning Bodies aligning. The Racers will follow for the most part.

Gregg Reichman

PClassExpert

The sanctioning bodies are aligned, SBI, OPA, and APBA have P Classes that everyone and every race boat fits. Each can colsolidate any of the classes if the participants lobby them and have enough support from the participants.

Unification is the choice of the participants.

OSS is a canopied only series by the looks of their rules and not relevant to the conversation but may be interested in classes that have commitments from at least five racers that can agree on the rules of their class.

BenPerfected

Greg,
What to the sanctioning bodies align to? It is clear at least at OSS that they didn't want much to do with anything other than the 4 classes. Recently they have softened some in a limited joint effort with the GLSCS. Maybe a 2-3 class based structure would offer something worth promoting and regulating. Just for the record, I entered my 1st race in B Class with GLOPRA in 1989. I missed a turn in Sandusky Bay and got lost...and hooked.
Sprague

vinny kostelac

I agree with greg, to many sanctioning bodies with races on the same weekends or back to back from florida to michigan. The p class works like ron p said augie and smitty are set up for there class, are they holding back? probably but they are still having fun, the gps solves all debates, set up to run wot in your class via props, gears or setup. If more people planned properly there will be tight racing, to many p racers want to drag there pleasure boat to a race and not change anything....and then wonder why they are not competitive. We raced p class for years and enjoyed it, the gps's have tightened it up for closer racing. The 4 pro classes now established have decreased racer expenses and increased competition if we could all be racing at the same place we would have it all. Great competition, Fun, Sponsors and maybe a little money! If it contiues like it is we might as well leave the boats in the shop. SVL 5

Captnmike

Gregg,

I agree with a lot of your thoughts. We need the big classes to have something to aspire too.

But what is more exciting to the fans and racers? 5 starts of 3, 4,or 5 boats or 1 or 2 finishes of 4 or 5 boats going for the lead.

All forms of motor sports monitor their competition and make changes almost on a weekly bases to keep the racing close. Why can't offshore.

In my P-class idea you decide how hard you want to run your boat. With your average speed you determin your starting spot and how hard on average you want to run your equipment. By stating your maximum speed it gives you the chance or opportunity to run wide open if you want or need to to catch your competition, if you run harder on average than you thought , you would break out and be penalized. Again, think bracket racing at the drag races. 1 overall class all kinds of cars ands speeds. And there are rewards for in creased skill level and honing equipment, faster speeds for the racers if they chose. And closer competition because of improvement in dialing in ability for the fans.

Mike

shifter

Thanks Mark and Ron,

Has anyone been to Bayfair in San Diego. It is a good race lots of action from all types of boat racing good for the fans big party. Hydros,offshore,sst,flatbottom, and jet skis I think.

One of the keys there is short races lots of heats. It keeps people in the game if they miss there set-up. Penalties for doing there homework stinks. Just move them up a bracket. In sprint cars they make you start from the back. That makes for good racing.

pat W