What's the differance?
 

Ok, this has been boggling me for awhile now.
1. What are the differances between Challenger boats hulls and Active Thunders? They appear to have come from the same source. Obviously, AT has much better interiors. Paint is better.
2. There is a 28' DDC hull out there. It appears to be proven. why doesn't AT use this hull?
I only ask because this is the size boat I am in the market for and I truly like what AT is doing with their boats, but I am not gonna purchase a cut down 32' hull without a step. It is proven stepped hulls are more efficient, and since I am looking for a single engine 28ish size boat. I want the most bang for my buck.
3. So why not build it? I bet they would sell. Whats everyone else think.
I am looking at Sunsation or Sea Ray 29ss for the time being.
I would expect to see Challenger dealers starting to pop up the new management is much more aggressive and wants to be a player. I see huge improvments coming on their line of boats. The more they sell the more they will improve their brand.

I owned a 28 sunsation and loved it. I just feel the new 28's are over priced now for both AT and Sunsation

I'll keep my eyes open for a used 1

Sunsation has The best Factory support and a growing market with new dealers popping up.

Check with AT....I think it has happened. A 28 with a step......:cool:

And don't listen to that CAP071, He doesn't even own a boat....friggin' lurker!!:p

AT does not have a stepped 28 hull.

The DDC step that AT and Challenger incorporate into their hull design is patented by Harry Schoell. AT and Challenger design their own hulls.

IMHO, you're comparing apples to oranges. AT being a custom boat builder and true offshore boat, while the others mentioned are more production type builders and good all around recreational boats.

The first thing I did with the Challanger was look at the rigging(wireing ect--) under the dash and let me tell ya it was a joke and enough to make me walk then and there. Take a look at the A.T. it is a work of art.

nm

Two Names ????????????????????:D :D :D

Interesting:drink:

Please check this out. http://www.schoellmarine.com/new.htm

Look at # 3 It looks like to me that Harry designs the hulls?

Long and short of what I am saying AT should build a stepped 28' so we can buy them.

It doesn't need a step, plain and simple. Drive one and you will see.

My Bad....I thought I read it somewhere......oughta slow down on the Captain and Cokes huh ?:rolleyes:


NOT!!!:drink: :evilb:

Do you consider the 28 Active Thunder and the 29 Sea Ray to be competitive offerings?

The 28 Active Thunder comes with more standard/upgraded features than the 28 Sunsation, and its a bigger boat. Hence, the price difference. Same thing goes for the 32SS vs. the 33AT.

AT is going to remain factory direct for the most part, for the time being. It leaves out the middle man (dealer & markup), and gives you direct access to the factory. There are a couple of factory reps like myself that can help you into an AT.

You tellem' Sydwayz!

I was lucky enough to visit the factory January of 2005. the guys let me and the wife crawl a round in a 37 they were rigging. All I can say is WOW!! I was impressed with every aspect of the boat.

My next rig will be a 37 if I can figure out a way to afford it. The guys stopped what they were doing to talk with us and say hi.

I also road in Thunder Roys 37 back in Houston on Clear Lake when he first got it!! What a ride!!!


I firmyl beleive you pay for what you get!:evilb:

And of course,,,,this is just my 02.!!

I thought the difference in a Challenger hull and an A.T. was about $100K...he!he!!he!he!:D :D :D
In reality the bottoms are all great..it's from the chine up and whats inside that makes a BIG difference.
I'm very pro Harry ..always have been and always will be!

1. I listed Sea Ray and Sunsation because they are possible purchase choices for me, and I wouldn't be posting in here if I did not like A/T. I will put this as simply as I can, If A/T would like my business then they need to update their hull to match the rest of the fleet. simple enough I think. I personally think a roomy 29' stepped hull single engine A/T would be the boat I am lookin for.

2. No comment on the pricing.

Steps alone should not make a boat. If that is what you are only basing your purchase on then you obviously need to look somewhere else. I was one of the unfortunate buyers to own a single step Top Gun. Guess What, worst riding boat I owned and it was my first step bottom boat. I went back to a true V, 25 Degree deadrise 42 Sonic. Great boat for what it was, at that time. Next in line was my 37 AVH, excellent ride compared to the Top Gun as well as the Sonic. It is all on how the bottom was designed for that specific boat and what you are looking for. My 43 Nortech has 2 very small steps, might as well almost call it a V bottom, but I like the way this boat rides, especially in the ruff stuff, and it works for me. Good Luck with your desicion. Jeff

Steps have their pros and cons. I have heard of alot of step boats spinning out at low speeds due to the step - especially sunsation. Its simple physics - the steps help to loosen up the back end of a boat and give it more lift for higher speeds. But there are not any steps in the front (actually I have seen one boat company start to do this) so when you turn the front grips the water tighter than the back (because of the steps) which can cause a boat to spin out even at low speeds. Granted all this can be avoided with a good driver, but I'm no expert and even experts make mistakes. At first I thought the steps where sweat and I wanted them - know I could care less. All I really care about is rough water ability and the safety of my passengers.

There is a thread somewhere on OSO explaining the difference in non stepped, single stepped and multi stepped hulls.

The DDC hull that AT uses does not spin out at any speed. As far as rough water ride, I'll take you for a spin on the 33 in some 8 to 10's at 45 mph and you can be the judge. :D

I had a beer with a guy once that told me a story about steps and dart boards and if I remember there was something about shingles also. Can anyone guess who it was? I lmao:evilb:

Hmmm, Miller Lite?

LMFAO!!! Its all about balance:drink:

I don't think there is anything unique about the Sunsations that make them an 'especially' in this case. There a lot of them out there (for the obvious reasons) and there are too many people that don't know how to drive a stepped hull correctly. If I thought that this was even remotely true, I would have never purchased one and trust me, I did my homework. BTW - the only other boat under consideration for me was the 33 AT.

Been there and done that haven't we !!! :D and don't fear doing it again in my AT :cool:

If you are refering to the 28, I wouldn't count on it. Like the man says why mess with perfection:D

wait for the 43:D

28ft when on plane barely has a running surface. No real need for a step.
btw, are you looking for a performance boat or a comfortable cruiser? A nice straight DeepV will give a nice soft ride... or are you looking to be the fastest out there... needing a step, cuz then you should be looking at an activator.

when i was at pantera a few yrs ago, Jo told me there was no reason to put a step in their 28, only the 35, due to wetted surface. even though pantera shows a stepped version on their site(for over a yr now) and no mention of actually building it. Still crankin out straight Vs.

like I said before, you don't need it. where do you think it should be put? On the transom?

The 28 is and will remain a true deep-V. However, I've entertained the thought a few times for the DDC.

I disagree that the DDC will not work in a smaller boat. We had it in our 22 Banshee and it was great! No doubt the Challenger rides equally well.

The biggest reason we don't do it is the return on the investment is not there. Right now smaller boats aren't selling so we are focusing on the larger products and the larger projects, i.e. 43.

Plus, honestly, the 28 runs so great as is there is not a real desire to mess with it! At 75 mph it is on 'rails'. With a step and 80+ it is a guess.

Hope this helps. Pat

ok you brought it up! Where are the Banshee's

Considering that I have a 27 ft Formula, w/ a sigle step design, this thread got me thinkin, and wonderin, and prompted me to ask the question. Why DOES my boat have a step? There is alot to read on the subject at the US Patent Office...

http://www.uspto.gov/patft/

Search on "stepped hull" and you should get 39 returns concerning stepped hulls

Google search found this...http://www.rbbi.com/folders/pat/regal/regal.htm

I wonder how the hell you can compare an AT and a Sunsation to a Sea Ray. No comparsion! I have ridden in a 28AT and there is only one word that would describe the ride, sick!!!

Pat won't be haveing any trouble with Harry believe me.

You cannot turn a stepped-hull boat in the same manner as a traditional deep vee. I've turned the new quad-stepped Sunsation F-4 at 40 and 50 MPH and you cannot tell it from a non-stepped boat. Key is where you have the drives set before you enter the turn and how you control the power through the turn. No offshore-style boat, regardless of hull design, is intended to turn like a slot car.

The 28 AT is a significantly bigger boat than the 288 Sunsation. A 29 Sea Ray doesn't fall into the same category of boat as it is more of a large runabout/daycruiser. Having never ridden in a 28 AT, I would imagine it rides as good or better than a lot of 30' boats out there. It is a large, deep boat. I would love to own one someday.

You and me both. Now if i could just find that money tree.

My next boat will be a Active Thunder(I hope):drink:

this thread makes me wonder why donzi has a step in the
22ZX.

Where the HELL in this thread did I compare anything to anything I simply stated that those were viable purchase options for me, and last time I checked I was spending my money so I think I can compare whatever I want to. If I don't find what I want in the 27'-30' go fast market then I am thinking of sacrificing the speed for the luxury of Sea Ray or similar type boat. Pat stated clearly what his intentions were for the 28' in this thread. Nobody would know if return on his investment would be worth it like him. However, if say a 28' or 29' DDC thought pops back into his mind in the near future I'll fly down with my deposit in hand for # 1. Pat, thanks for responding to this thread.

I enjoy my 28AT very much....To say the least! HOWEVER...If you are looking for speed alone, there are faster hulls. But no other 28-30' boat will run like it in 2-4's....WOT with slight tab and slicin' right on through! My twin 28AT is a true offshore performance boat that gets about 3mpg @ 3800 rpm's...2.2mpg @ 4800. It's a blast and when I'm ready to move up, it will be a 33 or 37 AT, of course!

Well Said Spilman. Now.....what are those peices above your exhaust?:confused: