Stupid question.
 

I could turn my Malibu Wakesetter at 45 mph.

Never spit a passenger out and it didn't have this warning.

Driver error or 'best guess' design?

That's because you have your ballest tanks full...lol

lol

There's no stupid questions, only stupid answers.:evilb:

Stupid is as stupid does, sir.

how do you come up with a warning that specific? I guess you flip it at the factory at 46mph:picard1:
hows that for a stupid answer

The plaintiff explained he was reading the instructions at speed and ran over the other boat and didn't understand how it happened.
LMAO.
If it can happen in America it will.
Its like placing a warning label on a ladder or a cup of coffee.
You just cant fix stupid.

I have to say it is pretty much admitting liability for an ill handling hull design. What other product in any market has this warning since the 3 wheel ATV?

But if you own the number "1" you gotta blame it on the driver.

Gave me an idea for your next ad campaign Pat. "Cigarette may be Number One, but Active Thunder is Number TWO...cuz we are the $hit!"

You are really glad you sold me a boat now, aren't ya?

That warning is there due to the step bottom design and the fact that most people do not understand how to properly handle them at speed in a turn. The reduction in wetted surface and the aeration of the inside prop and skeg on a step bottom boat in a turn is what leds to people spinning them. Hardly 'best guess' design...more nature of the beast. Same as that it is the nature of the beast that your 'Bu is going to ride like chit in even a mild chop.

I guess you don't know who you are talking to, or what is really being said without saying it... best guess, new to the AT forum.

I will let an expert or some one with experience in a DDC hull explain.

so glad you said that . i was dying to :lolhit:

I sure appreciate that insight. Thanks!

C'mon man...no love for my "We're Number Two!" idea? I'm thinking of having shirts made up! They will be brown.

I like the idea but am thinking #2 and the brown shirt is what you should be wearing when you get spit out of your boat when your #1 is all in the name and not the design.

Thoughts?

Nope dont know AT, but I do know stepped hulls...my speciality in school was high speed hydrodynamics...and if that hull was a cig from the 90'-2004 it was a Mike Peters hull, hardly a designer known for 'best guess' engineering.

Only one...instead of a brown shirt, that scenario would likely be better represented with brown SHORTS. :poopoo:

That hull has put a lot of people in the drink including close friends of mine.

#1 is a marketing gimmick, but they do look sexy. Quit letting stupid people buy them and the accident rate drops.

I just drop the tab on the side thats the direction i want to turn and hammer down......like an E-brake turn in a car:evilb::evilb::poopoo:

I hate to say this but it doesn't matter if the boat has 1 step or up to 6 step's , they all need a responsible person at the wheel that know's how to drive .
most all the newer race boat's are step bottom and they take corner's at 80+mph because the have experienced driver's in them that no how the boat handle's .
most people that buy $ 200 k+ fancy go-fast boat's think they no how to drive but they have no clue unless it's running in a straight line and that;s what the sticker is for , they should be on all Step bottom boat's

the funny thing is you could do something like that in a straight bottom but in a step boat your swimming :)

I`m pretty sure he was refering to the Cig hull as thats what he quoted.
As far as the sticker my Baja had something close in wording.. pretty sure its gotta be lawyer related.

It was directed towards the cig hull....when I read the response I didn't quite understand how he would know all the details of the cigs...:party-smiley-004:

All my friends that own AT's love them and try to get me to switch brands....:party-smiley-004:

[/QUOTE]

All it takes is one incident and a lawyer and you'll be lucky if all you end up with is a new sticker.

A professionaly designed hull? So you're saying that you have a staff of engineers/P.E's that design you hulls? Not trying to be rude...I really dont know very much about your company and didnt realize that you owned AT until after I saw some of the other comments.

To say that a step hull can perform at high speed in turns and rough water, a stepped hull boat should handle rough water better than a straight bottom in fact, is one thing...but you also know how the boat will handle. There are plenty of people that purchase one of these boats never having been in a stepped bottom boat and do not know what the differences are between that hull and a straight bottom hull. The inexperienced boaters are where the problem lies, and where the risk for a larger company like Cig makes a seemingly silly sticker cheap insurance from any possible litigation problems stemming from someones foolishness and inexperience.

AT is a Phenomenal boat! Styling, handling, etc.... It is a "DDC" hull. Very efficient and with good manners (single step).. They say there are two types of people with a twin step, those that have spun and those that will. I will argue that logic. If you own a t/s and spin or roll it there is no viable excuse unless you are in a sanctioned race or you performed an evasive maneuver. Bottom line there is no excuse! Stupid mother****ers with no sense should not buy stepped boats...

Sorry about that. Ya didn't quote so it looked as if it were the ATs.

As far as the sticker, how did it work for the tobacco companies?

My thought process is if you know you have any product with an issue, fix it. Otherwise stop building or producing it.

The simple answer is "yes".

Look up "Duo Delta Conic" hull design and "Harry Schoel."

I never even came CLOSE to spinning my single-step Fountain, because I never ever had a desire or necessity to turn at speed. I plan on driving my AT in the same manner.

Although I was VERY impressed with the speed at which Pat turned the boat on the test ride, I personally won't even try it. No sticker necessary.

Here's a linky for ya: http://www.schoellmarine.com/innovations.htm

It's all good, I also took offense when he knocked on Malibu's. I am a very happy Malibu owner :)

I hate to say the most fun boat I have ever owned! I watched my kids grow up wakeboarding, skiing and all the good things that go with boating.

My boy is on the Florida State Wakeboarding team. Didn't even know you could do that in college.

Yes,

Im familiar with Schoell's design work...I was unaware that he did design work for AT. His lawsuit against Regal was actually used in a Admiralty law class that I took last year.

His design approach is somewhat similar to Lorne Campbell's when it comes to strake and chine angles for stepped bottom boats. Both prefer to run a lot of negative angle on them to help improve the turning charicteristics which is something most American designers do not do. The other approach which was patented by Mike Peters is using a ceterline tunnel at the keel between the aft most step and to add lateral resistance.

Depending on the Nav. Arch you ask it would probably be a pretty even split on who prefered which design from a hydrodynamics point of view.

Thats just that MC and Nautique elitism :evilb:

In all seriousness though 'bu builds a fine product and wasnt trying to knock the company just that a ski or wake boat is going to ride like chit because of the quick transition to a low deadrise surface.

Can I assume they also taught you what happens to the speed and hull efficiency as you add more steps?

That question is not really a simple one to answer because speed and hull effiiciency are going to be determined by the aspect ratio of the lifting area L/D, angle of attack of the step(s) and the L/B ratio of the boat. Assuming a well designed step matched to a properly sized boat a twin step boat will be faster and more efficient than the single step hull.

I don't blame ya...if I owned a MC I would hold on to my 86 Nautique as well....:evilb::evilb:

I do agree my Bu rides nothing like my beak...but it's a he'll of a lot cheaper to run :)

Things seem to be getting a little off topic.
If someone can afford a boat of any caliber it will not make them a knowledgeable operator of that boat.
AT is trying to cover some basics of warning an operator of possible issues if not operated properly. As stated sarcastically earlier, a person or entity can be held liable for absolutely anything these days.
Train and instruct the purchaser the best you can upon delivery and insure to the hill for what may/will happen eventually.

The warning sticker was from a Cig, AT was stating the differences in hull designs and or flaws...now the thread is back on topic for ya...

Curious as to the case studies they gave you. Also curious if 3 or 4 steps are even more efficient.

Here's one for you which sums up step hulls nicely courtesy of David Svahn:

"The stepped hull is viewed as two regular hulls following each other closely in the
water. The first hull follows the same theory as a normal planing hull since this one
meets a calm level water surface. The second hull does however not, as it travels in the
wake behind the first hull. Because of this, the shape of the wake has been studied for
different conditions like speeds and hull shapes."

Her's one for ya, kid, courtesy of Kobus Potgieter. The last sentence sums it up quite well!


http://www.navaldesign.co.za/article...s-%20Feb07.pdf