AT Discussions
 

Jassman,

what are you thinking about your power options. Anything boat related for Christmas, Oh yeah, a 37 footer. :D

Hey buddy, Merry Christmas too you to. Im waiting to see if Pat can get me a deal on those 575sc. For Christmas our best friends who are going to poker runs with us got us some nice Nautica Jackets w/hoods, super nice gift, ours are yellow, theres are red.

Hey everyone. Hope you all had a great Christmas. ThunderDan, Thanks for the encouragement, being constiboatpurchasepated for this many months is becoming very uncomfortable. (that is the last comment I will make from the other thread)


Jassman, I do not know the HP gains with the chillers. I met a guy with a 386 Sonic and 575's with chillers and he indicated an additional 5 mph. Tops out arond 86 (I think thats right). Thats a lot of incremental mph in a Sonic. I do think the durability of the 575 with the chiller's would be better than the 500's and the whipple's. The statement is not from experience, its from spending a lot of time working with intercooled versus non-intercooled engines and witnessing first hand what thermal strsses can do to the top of a motor that is run hard for long periods of time. It would be a different story if you intercooled the whipples. I think they might have a package to do that. It may not fit in twin applications.

Lets ask Miller if he knows. Miller knows everything, I think.

H2o, thanks for the info, do you have a rough
idea how much chillers cost, and whats a good brand :)

Brandon, The guy with the 386 used Supper Chiller's. Its been a couple of months ut I think they were around $4,000 installed. I don't remenber all the details, but there is freshwater cooling that has to be installed and I think they re-map the engine similar to the whipples. Lets you take advantage of the denser charge buy dumping more fuel. Not sure if they add an injector or not.

H20,

No problem. I am there for ya. Intercoolers for thje 575's interesting. Jeff maybe you can shoot dustin an e-mail and ask him for his opinion on the pros and cons of 575 with chillers and whipples with chillers. Pretty good info h20. Where did you get your experience with chillers?

Jassman,
sounds nice, I got a nice propeller for my necklace from my kids, pretty cool.

h20,

Is that 4k a side? Forgive my lack of knowledge with chillers but is the main function exactly as it sounds? How did he gain 5mph with chillers?

Merry Christmas to all of you!
I'm no expert on this guys, but I think most of Dustin's kits these days are intercooler equipped.
I talked with him via e-mail about whipplecharging the 350MagMPi's on that '28 I just bought and the kit includes the intercoolers. 500 horsepower at 6 Psi boost!
He suggested adding low-water pickups for the engine cooling and letting the strut-mounted pickups handle the intercoolers.
I probably won't do this until the boat comes home this spring from Pompano, but it is definitely in my plans.
I think it will surprise a few people after I complete the install! :D :eek: :D
Jim

Jim,

whippling that bad boy, very cool. That is the same thing that i thought that the whipples had intercoolers in the package already.

That adds about 8k to the 575, i think Jeff. :confused:

500efi's, 500 efi's, 500 efi's

Dan, what the intercooler does is cool the air charge back down after it has been compressed. When the SC pumps up the pressure the air temp goes up and the air becomes less dense. This results in less oxygen available to burn the fuel and a tendency toward predetonation in the combustion chamber. If you cool the air after compressing it you can increase fuel flow to the engine and raise boost-this results in higher horsepower to the engine. The builders that I know will also tell you that engine longevity is increased but I suspect this would depend on how hard you squeeze those puppies :D

Ted

This concludes your daily engine tech session, please resume your talk of latex and the islands ;)

PFM Products the makers of superchillers makes 2 kits for the 575. A 75HP ~$1300 and 125HP ~$2000. Both add intercoolers and a bit more boost while the 2nd adds fuel pump and more boost. Install cost $500-1000 each. Will add ~6" in height. Nice New Years present.

Ted,

thanks for the lesson, I appreciate it. :)
Go enjoy yourself and have one of those umbrella drinks for me. :D

Marty,

Thanks for the prices, that is not too bad, so it looks like the price that h20 was talking was for the pair.

Jassman,
Talk to pat to see what clearances we have. :)

You guys should talk to Steve David- (he's in Lighthouse Point) about the Whipples on 500EFI's. He's got three of 'em on his Black Thunder, and I'm sure has accumulated more than enough time by now to have some real-life experience for you. He's one of the nicest guys I've met in the boating world, and I bet he would be more than happy to answer your questions about reliability, etc.
Plus... he's local to Pompano Beach! ;)

[ 12-26-2001: Message edited by: jafo ]

good idea jim, thanks

THanks everyone for the help, the clearence hopefully should not be a problem because I have scoops on my hatch, I like the additional 125hp for 2K. This makes a great belated Christmas gift, or as a matter of fact its my birthday today, so one for Christmas and one for my birthday. Im going back to my Crowns, talk to you later :D

Jassman, Looks like the 575's and superchillers are looking pretty good !!!!! Radio Active should be close to three digits with the 575's and superchillers :eek: Might need to get Pat to add another inch to the step on your boat so the "wave" is still within the length of the boat :D $4,000 to $5,000 for RELIABLE power WOW :D

Happy Birthday Jassman :D By the way, how many is this, exactly :eek:

[ 12-26-2001: Message edited by: h2owarrior ]

Steve and Pat will probably shoot me for this but have you checked out the new "center access" cabin layout. If not go to the 37 page on AT's website and click on the (2) on the bottom of the page. I think its great. :D

Nah...center access cabin is "dated" to older styling! The side access gives a much cozier cabin feel and BEST of all, you should get a much larger dash layout.

Its the big ole 39, what a great birtday, i got 7 botles if crown, what a paqrty, wish you guys was here, super chiler are the way to go. pat hook me up,575s, chillers , and a beer wench, lets party :D

I have a friend that put Whipple's intercoolers on a roots blower (like the 575SC's blowers. Whipple's are much lower profile and are copper nickel. Super Chillers are aluminum (like Prochargers intercoolers) and WILL NOT last 2 years in salt water hence the closed cooling system mentioned above. Buy the Whipples.

Adding intercoolers by themselves does not produce more HP. Intercoolers allow you to run more boost without detonating, more boost means more O2 so you can add more fuel so you get more HP. The 575 SC is essentially a 500HP with a blower and TBI. Why not whipple 500EFI's for much less money? The Whipple 500EFI kit is intercooled and will fit on twin applications. If you add an intercooler to a 575SC, you will increase the blower overdrive to increase the boost to get the added HP SO you will also have to change the TBI settings (aftermarket reprogrammer) to get more fuel. IMHO you are still entering unknown territory by getting away from the standard/stock Merc setup by intercooling 575SC's just as you would have to with the Whipples and 500EFI's. So, why not do it for less money by Whippling the 500EFIs? It looks like the reliability risk is equal for both setups to me.

Jassman,

Another thought, why don't you call Mark Boos at Precision Marine in New Orleans. He built the 572 inch naturally aspirated motors for the GNO Cyclery PowerPlay (see GCOffshore.com) that dusted my a** in Ponchartrain this year. Mark could build you two 572 cu in motors for less than the 575's that will produce 700-750 HP with better reliability than supercharged motors.

Buy the 37 with good drives and 502EFI's or whatever the smallest big blocks you can get, sell the stock motor and have Precision Marine put in some monster naturally aspirated motors. I think you would come out ahead in more ways than one.

Tom

Thunderstruck, Is it true that the 575's are simply 500hp's with a blower ? I thought there was more to it than that.

I also think intercooling does more than reduce detonation. It actually lowers the temperatures in the top end of the engine. This does more than just reduce detonation. As far as I am concerned that is a positive by product not a reason to use the aftercooler (as they are called in my business) we're talking valves, pistons, heads, blocks, etc. As you mention both the setups (500's whippled or 575's aftercooles) require more fuel (or risk a lean burn situation) and require re-mapping.

The reason I think the 575's are a better way to go is 1) I thought they had some internal changes that typically are made to supercharged engines versus the 500's(PowerBoat article)and 2) the whipples are around $6500 per engine while the intercoolers run around $2,000-$2500

I thought I read that Jassman could get a deal on some 575's. That's what made the whole thing work.

I could be wrong about all this stuff, I've never done any of this stuff to a boat motor before. Industrial engines & equipment, yes, pleasure boats, no :rolleyes:

H2O, after checking part numbers on mercruserparts.com, the 575 does have different pistons and camshaft. The valves and rocker arms are the same. The pistons are probably dished to reduce the compression to prevent detonation and the cam will take advantage of the blower setup. You are right the deal would make the difference, but if you have to put a closed cooling system on for the aluminum intercooler you add a bunch of bucks. Also, the whipple intercoolers can be used with raw water but they are ~$3500-4000. You get the intercooler with the $6500 whipple kit and you get their customer service and the kit will fit under a normal hatch. It would have to be a heck of a deal to go with 575's I had one of the old prochargers on a 502EFI and never broke any hard parts, the intercooler prevented detonation and I was careful with the A/F. The aluminum intercooler rusted out in <2 yrs.

Hey Catman, how the hell are you, you'r right
I was plastered, my wife surprised me when I got home, all my buddys were here, and their wives, parents, and some blond chick with Bodacious Ta Tas from stripogram came at 10pm. It was a great party, hard to get up though, my head hurt till noon. I have decided to go with the Whipples, but like H20 says: I will let you know by the weekend :p

Thanks H20 for the info, very educating :cool:

Hey Thunderstruck, I also apprieciate the info, I received your email and sent you one back, get those motors ready buddy, Im gona spank ya at the Tickfa :p

I represent that remark :p

Im just bustin your balls, :eek:

Well life on the farm is kinda laid back

My name is Dan Lawler and Im sleepin in the sack

I can't post a reply cause I'm way too tired

I wish I were like Jassman who is always real wired.

Its bad enough that I have to do John Denver ****, where the hell are you tonight.

:p :p

Oh Thunderdan, Oh Thunderdan, its 5:00am, time to wake up, you had at least 10 hours of sleep you puss. Looks like the wife runs the house in that family, (MRS LAWLER: get off the computer, your spending too much time on their and not enough with your family, its the holidays, and I'll be damn if your gonna spend it with that Jassman guy, he's a nut, get off of there now , or Im cutting you off completely,) sound familiar. :p

Jeff, you asked for a picture, go to the bottom of the page and click on the "LOOK, no trim tabs" link! http://www.activethunderboats.com/activethunder.htm#

T-DAZE, way too cool pictures,your web site is also awesome, cumin along just great. I dont know of any manufacturer that shows a customers boats being built, especially on their web site to keep them abreast of whats going on. AT Dans boat under costruction looks cool, Sandy and I are very excited, caus ours is next. Keep up the good work, RaDiO AcTiVe is next!!! :D

Soo sorry to leave you so,
Had to go and mash some snow,
Now I am back after having a few,
soo sorry Jeff you spot is still number two.

Jeff,

when are you adding your whipples, out of the box?

SO YOU THINK YOUR THE RIDDLER TOO
REMEMBER, JASSMAN HAS HAD QUITE A FEW
NO RIME OR REASON CAN BE TRUE
CAUSE JASSMAN TODAY FEELS REALLY BLUE.
16 CROWNS AND WATERS WERE GREAT
THE STEAK AND SHRIMP WAS ALSO FIRST RATE
THE BAND WAS 60'S, 70'S, AND 80'S
AND JASSMAN WAS A FAN WITH HIS LADIES
MY WIFE, MY GIRLFRIEND, AND HALIE WAS THERE
WE TORE UP THE DANCE FLOOR, LIKE WALKIN ON AIR
WE SANG, WE DRANK, AND HAD ALOT OF FUN
BUT JASSMAN AND HIS THUNDER IS STILL #1 :p

You are correct about one thing, you and your thunder are number one...after mine is done. :p :D

When you adding the whipple?

Happy new Year everyone.

Jassman - i am sure you saw Ms Berry in SWORDFISH...very much topless!

He see's her everynight, in his dreams.... :p :D She is a member of the 90mph club after that scene. :D

Halie Berry, and Swordfish were awesome, she is fine, that was her first nude scene, and hopefully there will be more to come.

Dan, Im still unsure what im going to do, Ill know more after my audit, whether I can even afford a boat or not, :rolleyes: