Apache vs Pantera Ride
 

I have a 28 Pantera with twins, I was talking to a guy this weekend and I said I would like a 28 Apache. He said that the 28 Pantera has a nicer ride then a 28 Apache.I always thought that Apache had a little better ride.

Re: Apache vs Pantera Ride
 

Do you have that typed backwards? you mean apache better than pantera?

Re: Apache vs Pantera Ride
 

No not typed backwards. I thought Apache has a better ride.He said the Pantera had a better ride.

Re: Apache vs Pantera Ride
 

OK... I'd think the Apache would be heavier and the Pantera a bit faster.
He liked the ride of the Pantera better... OK... its only his opinion. Yours sure could be different. Got any recent pics of BlueBalls? :cool:

Re: Apache vs Pantera Ride
 

I've run with 28 Apaches and have seen them plow thru Great Lakes slop side-by-side with Cig 35's and giving up nothing. I don't believe any boat under 35' has as much bottom as the Apache 28. Takes some juice to move one though.

Re: Apache vs Pantera Ride
 

Chris,

What do you mean by this statement?

Re: Apache vs Pantera Ride
 

If you were to look at another boat- a Scarab or Cig 38 for example and look at where the keel sweeps down from the front to where it actually rides in the water, it's a gradual sweep. Sort of like on the 42 cig vs. the 38. The 42 is "more pointy" for lack of a better description. Looking at the Apache 28, it's almost like the bottom on one of the larger Magnums. There's a pretty swift drop down into the bottom. I'll try and find a photo that describes it better.

Re: Apache vs Pantera Ride
 

Here you go. Apache 28 and a Top Gun.

Notice the difference in the sweep from the bow. If you had a Tiger and a Top Gun side-by-side, you'd notice a similar difference.

Re: Apache vs Pantera Ride
 

I think I understand what you are saying, some boats are more pointy than blunt. I'll attach a picture of my boat, it is 34' and I don't think a 28 Apache is even close to having as much bottom.

Re: Apache vs Pantera Ride
 

Whats the beam on the apache. The Pantera is 8ft.
The 28 pantera isn't very pointy either.
This boat is a single, with twins(rearward weight) the bow may sit a bit higher, giving it a more pointy appearance.

Re: Apache vs Pantera Ride
 

I may be wrong but I think the Apache is 8'6" beam. (I forget) Both boats are awesome, Apache is a heavier boat so the Pantera will be faster with equal power. I have a 28 Apache but have never ridden in a 28 Pantera. Run with one but never ridden in it. Apache should be better in the rough but they will be so close I don't think anyone will ever know, unless Jo Nunez and Bobby Saccenti are driving.

Re: Apache vs Pantera Ride
 

What is it?

Re: Apache vs Pantera Ride
 

Yes, the Pantera has alot of bottom as well.

I'm sure there's marine architect rolling his eyes somewhere at how badly we're articulating these descriptions- I'm sure there's some spiffy terminology for all of this. I'm doing well to remember the difference between draft and freeboard.

Re: Apache vs Pantera Ride
 

34 Saber

Re: Apache vs Pantera Ride
 

I've never seen one. That boat has the most attractive, most perfect lines of any boat I've ever seen. The cowl definitely looks Apache- in fact it looks like an oversized Apache 28 on the bottom and a sized-down 41 up top. That's what the Apache 36 should have been.

Re: Apache vs Pantera Ride
 

Thanks for the compliment Chris. It does have some Apache look to it, although it is an original Saber design. Mine is the only one built so far. I think they may be in the design stages with a customer on 34 #2.

Re: Apache vs Pantera Ride
 

My 28 Cig would run with both the Pantera and Apache. It's like being on a dirt bike when out jumping waves! Very similar to both boats. These boats with bravos and small blocks have unbelievable throttle response!!

Re: Apache vs Pantera Ride
 

It's a very nice boat but not anything like either the Apache or the Pantera- the boats are completely different.. With equivalent power, the Cig 28 would run away from either of those boats on smooth water. In sixes and eights there would be no comparison.

Re: Apache vs Pantera Ride
 

[QUOTE=Chris Sunkin]It's a very nice boat but not anything like either the Apache or the Pantera- the boats are completely different.. With equivalent power, the Cig 28 would run away from either of those boats on smooth water. In sixes and eights there would be no comparison.[/QUOTE

I am not trying to start a war with you BUT I don't care what 28 you're in it's not going to be a fun ride in real 6 to 8s. We have real 6 to 8s today in Grand Haven and I would love to see either of the 3 28s get on top of them and run the shore. My hull is a 1973 and if you know your Pantera hull they are almost identical boats. Infact I think I might weigh a little bit more. My boy was out on the lake Sunday in some really rough **** in his 41 Saber and the best he could get was 71mph and those waves were big but not 6 to 8s. Any of these 3 boats with the same power in some nice 2 to 3s with an occasional 4 will be a really close race. All very fun boats. I am not saying the Cig is better then either boat just that they are the best 28s built!

Re: Apache vs Pantera Ride
 

I agree, no 28' boat is going to be fun in real 6-8's. This was at the Chicago poker run in 05. 4-5's, it was fun but we definately got some air time. We stayed at the back of the pack but it did pretty well for a 28 foot boat.

Re: Apache vs Pantera Ride
 

CFD, I don't know what kind of water you run in, but I don't see any waves at all... not 1 wave within 30ft of your boat(figuring your 28ft).
That is a 1/2ft chop at most, w/a 4-5ft swell.

No disrespect intended, and your boat looks great!!!

Re: Apache vs Pantera Ride
 

Normally I don't get big water where I run. (Lake Cumberland, Ohio river etc.) That was in Lake Michigan at the 05 Chicago poker run. The pic is decieving but trust me, it was rough. I was told 4-5's with big holes.

Re: Apache vs Pantera Ride
 

This pic was taken at the same run. It doesn't look like big water but enough to get this 38'? Formula air. No disrepect taken, I know the pics don't do it justice.

Re: Apache vs Pantera Ride
 

I meant to say at the end of my post that all 3 boats are the best 28s made! Didn't mean to sound like the 28 Cig is the best.

Re: Apache vs Pantera Ride
 

4 to 5s on Lake Michigan are big waves. For example anyone at this years Smoke on the Water got a taste of real 4 to 5s. I was in one of the 4 41' Sabers that kicked the **** out of everyone and there was not a single 28 let alone 32ft boat anywhere to be found. Infact only about 10 boats ran the second leg because it was so rough. I am sure the Chicago Poker run was rough but if it was that rough there is no way either of those to boats, 28 Apache and 38 Formula, would of ran the whole run. No disrespect to either boat just done alot of boating on Lake Michigan and they were not in 4 to 5s the whole time.

Re: Apache vs Pantera Ride
 

I was was with CFD in 05 at that poker run. Not sure if they were 1-2, 3-4,4-5's, BUT they were rough! We definetly got air that day!

I guess looking at that picture is kind of like looking at earth from a satelite! You just don't see the hills and mountains!! :drink:

Re: Apache vs Pantera Ride
 

It was not 4-5's the whole time. It layed down quite a bit after lunch.

Re: Apache vs Pantera Ride
 

Another pic from that run.....I think it was a little rough.. :D

And talk to "Thrillseeker" about 28 Cigs & BIG water...His spends most of it's life running when others wont

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I just ran my 28 Pantera in real 6-8' . It flew like an eagle
nice and level off the waves at 40-45mph It was absolutely unreal. Landed like a dream.

Re: Apache vs Pantera Ride
 

You must be an unbelievable driver! Got any pics or video?
Or better yet, any witnesses?

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how many 12 packs makes an 8 foot wave :evilb:

Re: Apache vs Pantera Ride
 

I caught the world record Bass once....But I returned it and forgot to take a picture........Get out in REAL big water and you'll want to go home....8 footers are well beyond small craft warning and not anything I'd want to be in in a 28' boat no matter what the make.

Re: Apache vs Pantera Ride
 

It is kinda funny how everyones perception of what seas are, are different.

Re: Apache vs Pantera Ride
 

Let's put it this way....This picture was taken by my wife a few years back at the POPRA Ventura offshore races. Scot Conrad and company a few weeks before that famous stuff (submarine) in KW. The course takes a left in front of the Ventura pier and heads straight out to sea directly into the swell. The shore here piles up quick and the swell gets LARGE. Boats were coming around the turn and heading into honest 5+ footers. I'd say boats were slowing to 65 or so while running into these. This is the type of air you get off a 5' -6' swell. The boats were coming down so hard the motors were cutting out!!

Re: Apache vs Pantera Ride
 

Hold on guys. first I wasn't running 60mph i'm not that great a driver and this was an area where waves were breaking when the tide was rolling in. The seas were semi ruff but in the south inlet of Amelia Island there is a shallow bottom a good distance offshore that was throwing exellent waves. I would run through about six or so of them turn around and do it again. This wasn't 8 foot seas for goodness sakes.

now this might be a start of another thread, but when i would approach the face of the wave I couldn't see over it standing in a 28 Pantera. I'm not sure how most people measure a wave but from the base (lowest point between waves) to the top you could have stood a sheet of plywood on its end.

Re: Apache vs Pantera Ride
 

thisistank, the pic you posted. we were seeing that much air at 40+ mph

Re: Apache vs Pantera Ride
 

thats crazy :evilb:

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The key word here is swell. These are not 5-6' waves.

Re: Apache vs Pantera Ride
 

tomcei, I think you better take a closer look at that picture.

Re: Apache vs Pantera Ride
 

those waves don't look that big at all....but you can make any boat get air on 1 foot waves...it's called trim and tabs....and IMO Pantera is the BEST 28 boat....i have had some experience in a 28 Pantera that no one will believe me unless i had pics or video...all i have to say was that i was in Hallover inlet in 12-14 ft swells with Albert " Miami Boys" in his 28 Pantera.....Pantera enough said ( in the 24-28 ft range )

p.s people who know me know that this is not a lie or that i'm exaggerating...i'm just a crazy nut that loves living on the edge

Mike