Wellby

Is Apache out of business again? Or have they sold out? What's up with them. Also , does anybody know anything about the 22 Scout, and anybody out there have one?

Hessdk

I was jsut at the Miami boat show and spoke with Eric Froberg, and Bob Saccenti. They had a 36' Apache on display with 500 EFI's. The boat looked good and will run 80-82 MPH! I am not sure if they still make the 22' Scout, but you can call them at (305)493-4999.

DanL

Bobby still owns the 36 molds. He stepped the original mold a couple of years ago but it didn't work very well. They need a new bottom. His company is Apache Performance Boats. He's grossly under financed and has had various investors over the years. Mark McManus started building the 41 in 87-88 through around the mid '90s.He still re-furbs boats and built a few 42's under his own name. That company is Apache Powerboats.He sold a set of 41 molds to Saber, but I belive Saber defaulted.
There is a 2nd set of usable molds, but its not my place to address their whereabouts or use. Around 100 41's were built. Bobby and Mark were both on thunderboat row originally, but Mark moved everything across the state to Ft Meyers. Mark built around 8 47 footers, maybe 4 pleasure and 4 full race. There was no deck mold for the 47 so he stretched the 41 deck over it and filled in the middle. There was an investment group that was going to revive the 41 under Heritage or New Era or something like that. They had a web site until recently. Century boats ended up with the 28 foot molds but I've never seen anything popped from them. The 22 Brave molds were for sale last year for $15000. The boat is very similar in length and freeboard to the 21 Team Shadows that run around up here. There are a few i/o's out there but alot had outboards hung in a well. I own 3 41's including a full race carbon fiber/kelvar boat. A few posts elsewhere on this board made a comparison to an Apache riding like an old convertible. Thats just bull. The boats are heavy and need to be driven to work well. Big engines with lots of torque and a good throttle hand gets a ride like no other boat. We just ran the outside from Ft Lauderdale to Miami and back 3-4 times last week and it just couldn't get any better. It you ever see one at the dock, lean on the deck or the gunnel. The boat does not move under your weight.

Eric Froberg

I really wish people would refrain from posting or speaking on subjects they know either little or nothing about. For the past 3 and a half years Bob and myself have worked hard to set straight the confusion surrounding our name. I have posted our phone number several times on this board and the offer is always good; if you want to know just call and ask. Hear it from the horses mouth. 305-493-4999, ask for Bob Saccenti or Eric Froberg.

Bob Saccenti is the founder of "Apache". Ben Kramer was a business associate and a racing partner. Apache Performance Boats (Bob Saccenti) built the 22' Scout, 28' Brave and 36' Warrior. Apache Powerboats (Ben Kramer) built the 41', 45' & 47'. Kramer's financial backing and Saccenti's touch on the trim and sticks put Apache on the map. Together, they were one of the most dominant teams in Offshore Racing. Mark McManus was nothing more than Kramer's employee.

Things started to come apart for Kramer's Apache when he was charged with drug related crimes, followed later with connections to Don Aronow's murder. Kramer's Apache was seized by the federal government and it's assets later sold at auction. Mark McManus was appointed custodian of Kramer's Apache while the government built and presented it's case against Kramer. SO, out of which Cracker Jack Box did McManus get Apache? You do the math. The Federal Government must have a terrific employee of the month program.

The 28' Brave and 28' Brave CC were sold to Cherokee Powerboats (Eric Froberg) in 1993. I hear Baha pulled a skin from one of my old boats and are building it as a 30 footer with a bottom wavier than an American Flag in a 40 MPH breeze. Century did purchase the 22' Scout molds.

The 36' Warrior was originally double stepped a few years back with great results. Through R&D and evolution we have simply eliminated the leading step. Our single step works great. We were at "Lake X" yesterday running the 36' we had at the boat show. Twin 500 EFI's, 9200 pounds of boat, 400 pounds of people, 450 pounds of fuel and spinning 28" Bravo 4 blade's. 10,050 pounds of mass and I saw 81.5 MPH on two seperate GPS units, one hand held - one dash mounted. We would say that is more than respectable. But, what do we know? Bob and I represent only 60 years of experience. Perhaps "DanL" would like to design a new bottom for us.

So, once again. Apache is alive and well in Miami, FL. We are presently building the 24' Eagle, 28' Brave, 28' Brave CC and the 36' Warrior. All models are wood free.

For more information call: 305-493-4999

DanL

Easy does it. I am not misstating and appreciate that you are setting the record straight. Nobody seems to ever have the entire story at one time. I am well aware of the founding of the line and the kramer story. I don't know when the first boat was built or when Mark took over production, but Mark has built the majority, wouldn't you say? I like the 36 and like Bobby. Its too bad that we disagree on the bottom design. Do you think that a new design would allow your boat to run faster? I believe you do. 80 is ok, but new generation boats with the same power are much faster. As for the 28, I know that the molds were passed around in the early '90s. Thats when it became Cherokee? So it was the 22 that went to Century. Didn't they take the 28 as well? Oh, and just for the record, even though I own 3 41's, I have never in my life talked to Mark McManus or spent 1 dollar with him. This wasn't a tribute, it was some of the first and offhand information that I gathered over the years. I just happened to be speaking to one of the old partners of Bobs the other day. Real nice Magnum he's running around in. Peace

ApachePete

To say that Mark McManus was simply an employee of Ben Kramer's is a total load of crap.

Mark McManus WAS Apache!

He built the boats.

He rigged the boats.

He tested the boats.

He (with Ralph Martin) sold the boats.

I'm talking about the REAL Apache's: the 41's, 45's and 47's. The one's that raced.

The ones that are famous today.

Bobbie Saccenti was and is a great guy. He's the one who put Apache on the map. He's the one who made Kramer a success.

But Mark is the one who built the Apache's people know .

DanL

Pete, there is definately some bitterness there. Probably opened an old wound!!

ApachePete

No bitterness.
Just think those who did the work, deserve the rewards.

DanL

I wasn't referring to you,Pete. I think that all of the struggles over the years and the ups and downs and egos have taken its toll on all things Apache.

Tonto

Hey Guys
Lets just all be thankful that they had the where-abouts to build these great boats! We just took four 47's down to the Keys on the FPC Poker Run and had a blast. I agree with you Dan, that water was great of the coast last weekend. Ain't nothing in the world like flying a 47. They might be a little on the heavy side, but what you get in return in one of the best rides in any offshore boat that was ever built. When people tell me that my boats are slow, I ask them to come play in my element; big offshore water.
I talked to McManus at the Lauderdale show and he told me that there were 28 47's pulled from the molds. That's his words not mine, I was just inquiring on how many were built. He did convert my 47 from a 6-pack to pleasure cockpit back in '95 and put a full cabin in the boat, you gotta love that center steering.
If anyone is looking I know where there are three of the nicest 47's for sale.
Eric,
Good Luck keeping the tribe going. Great job on Austin's interior, by the way.