That would probably be the best thing. That way we get to deal with facts first-hand.

And, I don't know Gellner, never been in his shop and we've never done a nickle's worth of business.

Since you're "sure", that would lead me to believe you have a list of names and circumstances to go with your "list of others..." that you know about.

So, post them.

Tell us all about your experiences. And not the whispers and rumors that you may or may not have heard or just made up so you could pile on post in here.

The man operates a business with a solid reputation. That's not to say that he or any of the rest of us haven't had issues or problems in our own lives & businesses or that we're immune to them, but this unsubstantiated mud-slinging is getting carried away with.

When the man's friend comes on here and is involved, there's at least some credibility by connection. I really question whether Ziploc has any knowledge about this or Gellner whatsoever. He's been here a month and I looked at his handful of posts- not a substantive one in the bunch. In fact, his posts remind me alot of the "Cigarette Kid".

Well I have only been here a short time. Didn't think I was mud-slinging. This is the kind of info I would want if I was thinking of going to an engine builder. I thought I was backing gellners engine building skills ( not mud-slinging.) oh well. PEACE!! Explain the cigerette kid thing.

You said...

The word "sure" implies direct knowledge. If you've done business with Gellner and he's failed to deliver, then we're all ears. If "sure" means "My guess is..." then you're assuming based on zero fact. And I don't think that has any place in a discussion like this.

The man is running a very reputable business and has been at it for a long time. It's unfair to sully a hard-earned reputation with anything other than hard, cold fact. If assuming there is an issue here, to my knowledge it's a rarity. I'm only a few miles from the man and I hear plenty of what's going on. I've never heard negatives about Gellner.

The Cigarette Kid- he's a kid that came on the board last year. He was posing as Skip Braver. Then one of the designers at Cigarette. Then he cleaned up for a while but fell offf the wagon again. His posts and yours are strikingly familiar. If you're not him, then OK. Regardless of who you are, I'll toss you the "new guy" speech. You are what you post. If that's fun, funny, serious, helpful, inquisitive, whatever. If you come on and, without specific knowledge, add to a controversy, what you are is counter-productive. If Dean had one problem in years, then that's that. Adding to the conversation by inferring that these issues are par for the course in dealing with the man, that's unfair and detrimental to his livelihood. The way these things start is this- someone has a problem. That's fine. If they choose to bring it here and resolve it, then that's great. But fanning the flames just for the hell of it is just bad business. And that's because people may not remember all the details. Your one post becomes a scant memory of a "fact" and pretty soon, Dean Gellner has never delivered on time in people's perceptions.

Another bad idea. Every month or so we get a "bad referral" thread. Someone wanting to be helpful will recommend a service or vendor- but they've only "heard" about them- no first-hand knowledge. Then the guy takes the rec and gets boned. Not only is he pissed at the guy who boned him, he's pissed at the guy who referred him. If you don't own any of Gellner's work, you probably don't have any basis for your backing. Not to say he doesn't have a solid reputation- but for me, that's all I can say- and point to people I know who have used him personally.

Lastly, I ran through your 33 posts. In one, you're saying "If I were in the market..." and a day or so later you're asking a guy with a Tiger what his bottom dollar is. That's a quick way to get a bad rep on here. There's nothing I like better than seeing new people coming on here & posting. If you know alot, I look forward to learning from you. If you need to know something and it's something I can help you with, I'd be glad to help the best I can. Just before you post something, ask youself "is what I'm posting going to help or add to the discussion?" Substance is everything. The rest is clutter.

You would think that Dean screwed a customer out of money or did not stand behind his work if something happened or left town with you parts, but all that he did was take to long to build a couple of CUSTOM engines.

I would rather wait to have reliable engines that last then have them rushed and be overcharged and possibly have problems or no engines at all. Dean is a good guy and a great engine builder who is always there to help you. I am very happy with my gellner engines and he will get my business the next time i need it.

Carl and Mark, i think you are both asses for the comments you have put on this thread. It just took too long thats it!!!! Which is both parties fault.

So Ike

If you sent your engines to an engine builder and he cost you all last summers use of your boat, you wouldn't have a problem with it ???? The use of your boat has no value ????

Explain to me how this 16 month engine rebuild is somehow part Steves fault ??? Us "asses" are curious like that.

Carl, I believe it's "we" asses, not "us" asses. :party-smiley-004:

I never realized there were so many ApacheXxxx guys on here. I feel left out. I'm going to registerApacheChris right now, before it's gone

[QUOTE=ApacheCarl;2634986]So Ike

If you sent your engines to an engine builder and he cost you all last summers use of your boat, you wouldn't have a problem with it ???? The use of your boat has no value ????

Carl, not everyone has your deep pockets to buy already built teague engines and not send yours out to get rebuilt.

Explain to me how this 16 month engine rebuild is somehow part Steves fault ??? Us "asses" are curious like that.

Maybe $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$???

Pete it's"yous" asses:grinser010:

Value is when you can run your engines without having to worry about anything breaking, that's value! Any other builder would have charged double for what I give.

I stand corrected Pete. Sharon, Steve,Krista, Jim, and myself(you know, the ass) will be in South Haven tomorrow by 2:00 pm. Come on down for a drink. If you can get somebody to drive down and pick you up in St joseph you can throttle the boat back home :)