that would be tom to bobs left,thanks scott.

Mark, I didnt say who built the first boat, I said who I thought(and I may be wrong)was in charge of the first 41 mold for Don.

Although your criptic messages might be fun, sometimes JUST SAY WHAT YOU MEAN, know what I mean.

don't go away :p ..... stay tuned!!!!!!;)

Its getting windy in here:D

WarParty,

Spinakers is south of 188th st. about 10 mins drive. They do have space left and there are quite a few performance boats. The word on the street is there will be many more coming!

SGRADY,

We will not be on the Nov key west run, but will be going on the Spring Key west run in March. Had a great time last year.
We are down on the boat alot. Usually fly down on Friday evening and home on Sunday evening or monday
early A.M. Hope to hook up with you.

Little Tommy :cool:

are you saying ..............................

Click on link in post # 2 :eek:

ZOOMNFUN, I have intentionally stayed out of this saga because lets face it I'm burned out on it. If they make it great, if they don't sorry about their bad luck. I wish them well and time will tell. I wont go into the history because it has been covered more than the OJ trial was. Refer back to the Apache what's in a name thread as it has lots of good reading. I was going through it today. Anyway to respond to an earlier post concerning the "Original Mold". These are the facts that I know to be true. I was a snot nosed punk when I was there during that era but stood in corners and kept my mouth shut and ears open sometimes too good. Let me tell you that was when it was all for real. Enough rambling this pretty much explains how the entire chain of events began to transpire.

No disrespect towards Mark McManus, he is undoubtedly one of the finest project coordinator's in the industry today and also would kill himself with a screwdriver, but for the record Don designed any of his plugs, hull extensions, and/or boats, and was very good indeed. That much we can agree on I'm sure, can we not? Don had qualified carpenters, such as the Chapman's, on staff who followed his instructions to the tee, making his visions a reality.

As far as who did the actual tooling of the 41' "No Name Mold", that gentleman is Mr. Servillio Pico, now building boats for Midnight Express of Miami.

McManus was indeed Don's General Manager of USA Racing Team, Inc., fulfilling management duty's on a daily basis before becoming employed by Kramer, and all of this took place after the first few originals were built I might add.

The 41' "No Name Mold" was only used to pull one part from, a hull to be split into two parts and redesigned (by Don), that became The U.S.A. Cats purchased by the Government for drug interdiction patrol boats more commonly referred to as Blue Thunder Interceptor Boats. Later, Don designed and tooled a new race deck mold to fit the 41' so he would have a complete set of molds to either build boats from, when his non compete clause with Cigarette forbidding Don to build any new V-bottoms, expired or more true to form sell it or use it as bargaining tool. Don wasn't prejudice at all, everyone's money was green and he could spend it just like all the rest.

Soooooo, along comes Bobby S. and what do you know the next thing that happens, "Warpath" was born coming from a stretched 37½ ft Cigarette. I believe it was originally to be named The B & B Special but need to check with Bobby S. to be sure, are there any questions? If so PM me with them because I wont get involved with the Apache Saga at this time. If you wanna know the non-fiction overview there it is. If you want the history refer to the other threads, it's there, sometimes diluted but like cream the truth always rises to the top. Just look for the stuff that repeats the most from more than one member.

Respectfully, tactfully, and completely diplomatic.
"The Illustrious One"
Sean Stinson

Also Zoom I didn't single you out, bro; you were the one that asked the question. McManus does deserve credit for alot of the 41's and 47's. I also explained that in another thread somewhere.

Oh hell I can't resist this one....Bobby, Eric, Jack, and TNT Eddie this one is for you guys.....

Professor Stinson gives brief history overview.

Anyway I think it was later that asked the question.....And this only concerns Apache, not what came from where, and who sold what to them for HOW MUCH, bull****!

The first mold was the 41 are we all in agreement?
Good

Then came the 47 which was a stretched 41 agreed? Cool

From that tooling was made, still with me?
OK

Company Splits into 2 seperate but aligned Apache Entity's (SP?) still continuing to race and do boat shows together. Gentlemans agreement between them had Bobby doing under 40' and The Kramer Hollywood shop doing over 40' and that is where McManus was involved in his capacity as Pres/GM/Chief cook & Bottle washer whatever who cares?
OK stay with me here!

Benny gets pinched....Gov't now controls Apache Hollywood, where they make McManus custodian in charge or whatever upper college level word they have for it now, not Apache Bobby. Benny is still pulling the strings of Apache Hollywood to some degree. Got it? Good

Bobby talks to Benny and a deal is made to pull a shortened part from the 41 hull mold originally supposed to be 35' in length to compete with 35 Cigs etc. Well somebody read the tape measure wrong during the damming process and the 36 was born from which tooling was made for Apache Bobby.
Any questions so far...?
OK

The gentlemans agreement was broken when Apache Hollywood built 38/40 model of the 41 for a car racer. I am leaving all the particulars out concerning the finger pointing and mf'ing, he said, she said BS!!!

And that my friend was when all bets were off and the proverbial **** hit the fan.

Did everyone stay awake for today's lessons?
Grreeaatt

I know there are alot of other details, points, manuever's, and other things that can add to it but the above is basically everything that went on to lead up to todays "'Soap Opera Drama' 'The Apache Wars'" that rivals even "Dallas" with JR Ewing.

I kind of went out into left field for a while but to answer the original question the 36, 41, & 47 all came from the 41. Whether it was stretched or dammed to make that model.



Sean


__________________
"Don't Tease The Cat