500EFI's vs 496 HO
 

What was the orginal price difference between the 500's and 496 HO's? Is it correct that there is roughly a 6-8 mph difference between the two (76 mph for 500's & 69 mph for 496's). It doesn't appear that the 496 boats are selling for that much less than the 500's. I would think that it would have been quite a step up in $ new.

Re: 500EFI's vs 496 HO
 

The actual speed difference in MPH will depend a lot on the boat. More in a 29 Outlaw, less in a 40 Outlaw.

Bottom line is MORE Horespower = More Speed.

When I bought my 36 new in 2002 I think I paid like $30K ( $15K per side) more for the 500's then the 496HO's. Seems like it was around that amount. You also get an upgrade in the outdrives included in that price as well.

In my opinion it was money very well spent.

GO BLUE

Re: 500EFI's vs 496 HO
 

Plus the 500's are built so much better than the 496's. (internals)

Re: 500EFI's vs 496 HO
 

Oops, forgot to put the size, 36 Outlaw. Thanks.

Re: 500EFI's vs 496 HO
 

more like 68mph in a 496 36' and 74mph in a 500 36'

Re: 500EFI's vs 496 HO
 

I agree that the better choice is the 500's. I just don't understand why the 496 boats are price roughly the same as the boats with 500's. Shouldn't there be a sizable difference in price? Would you consider the 496 boats underpowered?

Re: 500EFI's vs 496 HO
 

There are several reasons.

1) We are in a very depressed market and people are needing to move their boats. The guy that does not know any better is looking at price.

2) Many people believe that the black motors last longer and do not require as much maintenance. A lot of this was learned from chitty dealers that wanted to seel what they had in stock and they bad mouthed the blue motors to scare the buyer away from them.

3) Many do not feel the 5 MPH is worth the difference and will not pay the price. Those people are not looking at the big picture either. You get better exhaust, stronger gimbal and drives, and offshore motor mounts.




Yes, not for me. Buy a cruiser if you want a 36 foot boat that runs under 70.

Re: 500EFI's vs 496 HO
 

Did they upgrade the drives in the early 2000's though? I didn't think the XR Bravo came out until 03.

Re: 500EFI's vs 496 HO
 

number one is just that...numbers

% depreciation hits the originally more expensive boat harder.

#2 the 500 EFI's may need valvetrain inspection and maintenence (parts) beyond oil changes in that first 300 hours. Not all, but it is common.

CMI's growing leaks with age are more potential expense in buying a used one with hours.

I think all this is reflected in the marketplace.

Re: 500EFI's vs 496 HO
 

What exactly needs to be done to the 500's? How much $ are we talking? Does that need to be done every 300 hrs?

Re: 500EFI's vs 496 HO
 

The EFI motors are not affected by the valvespring problems that the carbed engines did. There was a cam change & a material change that has corrected this potential problem.
As far as what needs to be done. Well the valve covers should be removed & the valve springs inspected for corrosion & breakage. If there are brolen springs you are looking at about $300 for a set of springs & locks per engine. I would assume that it would be about $500 - $750 per engine for labor at most any marine shop.
I would not be afraid of a HP500 or HP525EFI engine. I would buy a boat with "blue" engines way before I would one with black engines. Even though I did buy black engines this time around, I would have bought blue if there had been a choice.

Re: 500EFI's vs 496 HO
 

first you say they are not effected, then give details on what needs to be done...

two different animals and parts collection.

I stand by my post answering the asked question about used pricing, it's on the mark as to the reasons why the spread isn't as big as some think it should be. (namely 500EFI engined boat owners)

Re: 500EFI's vs 496 HO
 

I think Jason is speaking of the carbed 500's when he is refering to the repairs.

Rippem, if I am reading you correctly, you would go with the black motors?

Let me clarify myself, I am speaking of 500EFI's, not the 500 HP's. We would be looking at 2000 or newer 36 Outlaws.

Re: 500EFI's vs 496 HO
 

The retail upgrade from the 496 HOs to the 525s on the 405 was over $80k!!!!!! It still was expected to run under 70..........I went with the HOs. Yes, it is our cruiser............I kept the 302 that had HOs in it as well. It ran 77.4 on GPS and had a little more in it. I just sold it.
I'm shopping for a Spectre cat for my fast boat.............I like the 32 with 525s, 600s or the Ilmores................. I've got to let the $ wounds heal from selling the 342 and the 302 and buying the 405................OUCH!

Re: 500EFI's vs 496 HO
 

Fresh water cooled, its the only way to go. I have 496HO in my 2006 35 OUTLAW. The motors turn my labed 28 Pitch Bravo one porps at 5200rpm At 75 mph on the GPS all day long. The 500EFI is a great motor for sure, But So is the 496HO. any one who says otherwise is not being honest.

Re: 500EFI's vs 496 HO
 

[QUOTE=flyboyaa1]Fresh water cooled, its the only way to go.QUOTE]

YEP I hope to be out on LOTO THIS New Years day too :evilb:

Re: 500EFI's vs 496 HO
 

yes, I do have HO's in my 353. I am very happy with them. They run great...fat torque.

They have been on Mobil 1 since the second change and have NEVER used one drop of oil. Push my 10,000 lbs of boat 70+ any time, and are quite eficient at cruise. I read somewhere that they are engineered to go 1000 hours of reasonable use with good maintenence.

There's no "bling" factor (though it is available) but they are workhorses! :cool:

I couldn't justify the $ for 5-6 more MPH with blue.

As far as bling, well...I dig sun, beer and chicks. Opening my hatch to show off is far down on the list. :drink:

Re: 500EFI's vs 496 HO
 

as far as the 500EFI's being free of issues tell me how many are making 350-400 hours without at least top-end rebuilds.

How many do you see for sale on this threshold and why? and how many do you see that have made these hours and are advertised as "freshened"?
freshened by who? and why? did they do it right? ect...ect...

are you getting the picture yet?

I'll call you when my HO's break say...the 700 hour mark, with nothing but oil/filter, fuel filters, and a couple of plug changes.

try that with blue...

and see why they sell for much less than the original difference in color$

Re: 500EFI's vs 496 HO
 

We pulled ours down at 300 hours because I wanted to build more Horsepower. Everyone i know including the Mercury Engineers at the Miami boat show and a good friend that helped develop the 500EFI, Mr Keith Eikert all told me to leave them alone.

Merc told me with proper maint (IE OIL & FILTER) and if you don't abuse them or overheat them they are good for a solid 500 hours.

I have a good friend in Jacksonville, Florida that just six months ago pulled the 500's out of his 38 Scarab to do exactly what I did to mine. His engines looked GREAT and he NEVER in 500 hours had a mechanical failure. This was the first time the engines had been opened up. And I got to tell you he RUNS THEM HARD.

Another buddy has a big Donzi 38 ZX with 500's and he ran over 500 hours a year ago.

The problem is that the original 500 HP with a carb had bad value springs out of the box and they were failing at 200 hours. We are talking 7 to 8 years ago now. This is old news and has long been corrected, and has never been an issue with the 500 "EFI" engines.

Another myth is NOT run them wide open throttle for more then 30 seconds. The guy that rebuilt my 500's was on my boat for the Jacksonville Poker Run before we pulled the engines. He told me to see if I could break them, that he guaranteed me that with 300 hours and the excellent maintenance schedule I had preformed that they would not break.

With 4 people on board we ran "WIDE A$$ OPEN THROTTLE" all the way back from Palatka to Jacksonville non-stop. That is 70 Miles.

When we pulled the engines down they looked excellent. One head gasket on the the port engine had got very thin between two cylinders. He traded me some of his labor for the stock cam, heads and valve train. They are all running today in another boat.

Believe what you what to believe, but you get out of any engine what you put into it and how you care for it. I also know a guy in Florida that bought a brand new 32 Sunsation with 496HO's last year and the crank in one engine BROKE with 10 hours on it. Merc gave him a complete brand new engine.

I suggest that you run them hard after break in, and before the warranty is out. If they don't break, you will be cruising for many trouble free hours to follow.

I have four years and over 400 hours now on my CMI's and no problems yet. They are expensive, but I would buy the same in a heartbeat if they failed. They look, perform and sound awesome.

P.S. Mobile 1 15W50 every 20 hours TOPS, or after every poker run. Fram HP 4 filter and drive fluid every 20 hours.

Re: 500EFI's vs 496 HO
 

Run them just like any other engine. Service them well and enjoy. You will find that you do have to do a LOT of polishing, becasue they look so awesome you will want to lift your hatch at the dock and show them off.


A complete top end rebuild will usually run about $1200 per engine. To totally freshin them you will spend about $4000 to $4500 per engine.


Absolutely NOT. I have seen too many of them now with 500 trouble free hours. Call Merc and ask them first hand if you don't believe me. Unless you abuse it, don't service it, or just get unlucky it will last a lot longer then 300 hours.

They have the "BEST" internals. You cannot build a higher quality motor. They are HAND built in the Merc racing department. I saw a special on Discovery about building engines and Mercury was one of the companies showcased.

Did you know that Merc use to build the engine for GM that went into the Corvette?

Re: 500EFI's vs 496 HO
 

I know four engines in two different boats that have made 500 hours. One just got reworked with more HP, and the other is still running strong.

Knowing what I know now, I would have easily made 500 hours.

Re: 500EFI's vs 496 HO
 

ok then lets get back to the original concern...buying used and used values. How do you know how they've been treated and maintained? Without the sophisticated electronics

I'm glad to hear you and the couple people you've mentioned have had good luck, and the Merc propaganda that supports a VERY profitable "blue" program for both Merc and the boat builders they are in bed with has had it's desired effect.

I'm not being a dik to you Dock, I'm just trying to contribute to everyone seeing the big picture, as you are, when asked about values. Cruise the boats for sale and get some stats together of how many have been opened and at what hours. 90% of owners aren't opening them up because they "want to", but rather because they "have to"...

How's your oil consumption?



Yes, Mercury in Stillwater assembled the Lotus designed LT-5 engine of the ZR-1

This assembly program was overseen with a microscope beyond any marine motor to that date.

Re: 500EFI's vs 496 HO
 

I have a Merc scan tool, and also the computer software for my laptop. You can confirm the hours of operation and see at what RPM levels the engine was run at and for how long. Then with a compression test and a leak down test you can buy with confidence. Personally I know more people that are overkill on maintenance then not. There are a lot of used boats out there that I would trust just as much as my own.


There are a lot of 500's with many more hours then people want to believe. The 500 EFI is propably the most proven engine in the performance boat world with Merc's association with the APBA factory class boats. I would love to know how may hours have been logged racing at WOT.

I know that, and never took it any other way. There have been a LOT of people however brain washed by Baja dealers that only order black engines for their inventory and they try to scare the hell out of the buyer in order to sell what they have.

There are bad engines in all sizes and all colors. Anything mechanical can and will break. John down in Flordia as I mentioned lost a new 496HO. It was a defective crank I'm sure. But hey, that is a black motor.


I have NEVER used any oil. Not during the first 300 hours stock, or after the rebuild. It is very rare that I add any oil between the 20 hour interval I change the oil and filter. I carry a lot of oil (8 quarts & Filter) on the boat at all times, but usually I'm handing it out to buddies that don't carry any extra and need it.



By the way my 500's dynoed at 580 HP at 5300 RPM with "ALL" the accessories on the engines.

I do have a concern with oil temps since we pumped them up. Most here on OSO say they would like to have my temps, but they are 20 to 30 degrees hotting then stock and I plan to add some new coolers this winter.


Thanks for your input.

Re: 500EFI's vs 496 HO
 

As far as oil consumption goes, the 502 in all forms from Mercruiser comes with low tension rings. Those low tension rings promote, for lack of a better term, oil consumption. They also promote longevity.

Re: 500EFI's vs 496 HO
 

You are so right. I miss the 502 Mag, that was also a very good engine.

The one I had in our 272 burned a quart of oil for every tank of fuel.

I found that it you ran straight 40 weight oil nad never ran above 3000 RPM until the engine really warmed up good that it did not use as much.

Re: 500EFI's vs 496 HO
 

and we both know that is not only about selling what you have, it's about selling what you have (that's black) that was ordered with the intention of "price point marketing"...

I stand corrected in that the 500 has the electronics that "tell the whole tale" of operating parameters.

Re: 500EFI's vs 496 HO
 

good read guys thanks

Re: 500EFI's vs 496 HO
 

Well, I have had both.
500efi's in my 33 and now HO's in my 36 . If you can find one with 500's buy it even if it costs a little more. The difference in mid range alone makes it worth it. I love my boat and the HO's work fine but no one can argue that they are better than the blue motors. Forged crank, rods,pistons, etc. Just better internals. I know Raylar can make decent HP with HO's but to really build them you have to change internals. Not with blue motors.
Oh, numbers are right on for a HO 36 Outlaw...68 to 69 mph.
Boat eats up rough water. Looks awesome too. You will be happy either way but if you can find a 500 boat buy it.
Fastboats has a leftover 05' with 500's that I am sure you can buy right.

Re: 500EFI's vs 496 HO
 

I Have A 1999 36 With Upgrated 500's Ready To Go 82,500...
(I DIDN'T LIKE THE BLUE)

Re: 500EFI's vs 496 HO
 

I never said HO's were "better"

I am well aware of the parts in them.

496's are proven workhorses that's all, with excellent longevity.

and what is better when 90% of running hours are between 2500 and 4000 RPM...

In looking at used values and what can be bought for what, what's "better" 500's or $20-30,000 in my pocket? That'll buy alot of fuel!
there is also 20-30% to be saved on insurance with black in most hulls, either because of HP rating or top speed depending on the carrier.
I did alot of research!


there is no universal answer of course, I made my choice and am very happy. :)

Re: 500EFI's vs 496 HO
 

I haven't seen one boat with black motors selling for a $20-$30 K discount over the boats with blue motors. That is my whole point here. Why would anyone buy a 36 Outlaw with 496's over a 36 with 500efi's when the price is within $5k?

Re: 500EFI's vs 496 HO
 

They would be retarded to not buy the same/same boat for only $5k diff. :D

Re: 500EFI's vs 496 HO
 

I see both points and have spent many hours in boats with both motors, and have been in both when they broke, and have also seen both in excess of 500 hrs, I had a pair of 454 mag efis that only lasted 100 hrs, but it was salt, and already coroded the exhaust and caused basiclly 2 rebuilds for me, I know the blue will have more maint cost but doesn't that always come with more performance, Anyway, my next ride will prob be a 36 with 500's

Re: 500EFI's vs 496 HO
 

not in a Baja anyway

Re: 500EFI's vs 496 HO
 

W.T.F? Because they are worth more in a Bayliner?? I don't understand the basis of your comment.

Re: 500EFI's vs 496 HO
 

I have a 500efi under my hatch I have owed a boat with a 502 efi and a 502 carb. I just plain do not like the 496's probably because of the less than desirable internals, doesn't leave you much choice if you ever want to supercharge. My 500 just turned over 300 hrs and it is running strong. I have to say the midrange is excellent. I feel more confident running it hard than I ever felt with the black motors. I like the fact that the oil temps stay cool after hard passes vs the stock black motors heating the oil up quickly with their small oil coolers. Most of the guys that I know with 500's or 525's run them hard and I have yet to see them have any problems.

I guess the main point wether your motor is black or blue, if you want it to last. You have to keep up on preventative maintence, oil changes etc, and try to control your throttle hand, this is harder for some people.

Re: 500EFI's vs 496 HO
 

don't be offended...

but if that's what your finding in the used Baja market, than that's what your finding. You tell ME why that's the case?

Shop identical same MY used Fountains and Formulas with black vesus blue and tell me the spread isn't 20K give or take depending on how old the boat is...

Re: 500EFI's vs 496 HO
 

it's perception only that they are not well engineered to last.

Now subject to modification? probably not. this would be another factor in anyone's choice. I buy 'em to run 'em as is. Here in NNY the season is too short to be down. Been there, done that. This is not my first boat, it's my 6th, and I've done the modified power thing before with mixed results and continue to see others doing no boating within the 90-100 days of really nice weather we have.



gospel. ;)

Re: 500EFI's vs 496 HO
 

Where have you been the last couple of days? That is my original question. Go back and read my original post.

So does Merc charge less for the blue motors if they go into a Baja? :rolleyes:

Re: 500EFI's vs 496 HO
 

I'm out. your missing the point, and getting offended. I'm not making the rules. Just study the used market as I have regularly for the last 5+ years.

Baja is a price point marketed boat new, that takes more comparative hit $ on power upgrade used. It's the niche itself that makes them popular that is responsible.
and I have nothing against Baja. I've shopped the 36, looked at them and am in agreement that they are alot of boat for the $