Baja 25 OL whipple??
 

Hi,

I have heard great things about the Whipple supercharger and would like to uppgrade my Baja 25 Outlaw 496 mag 2005 with one. What should i think about? Some one told me it was not a good idea to do so because of the lack of forged pistons and what not. Really want to get the power and speed. Thanks from Sweden!

/Fredrik

I would PM Boddy Todd, AKA "Crayola Crazy" here on the board.

He learned the hard way what a Whipple does to a stock 496HO.

You can get forged internals for the 496 but it will get expensive. I have not heard anything good about blowers and stock 496's.

Skip the supercharger, and go with a reliable kit from:
http://raylarengine.com/
http://raylarengine.com/kits.html

Everyone says bad things about charging a 496 HO, A friend of mine has a Pro Charger on a 2001 baja 25 outlaw 496 HO pushing 2/12 PSI runs 77 on GPS and has had it on the boat for about 350 hours not a single problem yet. Maybe this is just a freak motor I don't know....... I would not do it but just wanted share the info.

I believe it was 2001 to late 2003 where the crank and rods were forged in the HO's 2004 till now all cast.

Pistons I think were all the same. Hyperutectic. Still the overall weak link in these engines. I dont think 2-3 PSI would do me justice for the expense. I would be too tempted to turn it up to 4 or 5.:ernaehrung004:

Dennis

My buddy has one on a 28 Sunsation. Picked up 15 mph. On its 4th or 5th season. Whipple makes a great kit. Go for it!!

2-3 lbs seems like a waste. That is alot of money for a few mph. I always "heard" the early 496's had forged lower ends too but I have no good evidence. Maybe raylar will chime in. I would go with the raylar kit if it was me.

I could fart 2 & 1/2 pounds of boost into a 496. Why even bother?
I have seen more 496 parts in the bilge that belong in the motor when "s/cing" a 496 than you care to count.
Raylar is the only company right now that has anything proven & reliable for the 496.
For the cost of a Whipple you can go Raylar & make more power.

Thank you for your input! Will checkout raylar.

[QUOTE=JasonSmith;2284556]I could fart 2 & 1/2 pounds of boost QUOTE]

Remind me not to go to dinner with you Jason! :eek::D:D

[QUOTE=BajaFresh;2285352]Dinner. You'll be just fine at dinner. It is the ride home when I have controll of the power windows you should worry about!:D

Raylar seems sweet! Does anyone know if the BCK-103 kit produces 525HP for the 496 Mag also since I don´t have the HO.

It should. The stock engines are the same except for Cam & ECM. The only thing with the BK103 kit on the non mag that you would need to do is the ecm recal to be there if my memory serves me correctly.. ;) Jamie / Lakeside


.

Thank you! Talked to Ray at Raylar and he said the same.

2004 496mag ho, I think its an ok engine, but like everyone I would like to get more speed out of it. I ran a labbed 25 mirage plus at 49 to 5000 rpm and ran 70. I now run a labbed 24 bravo 1 and get 68-69,but it gets there quicker. Limited budget, about 3 grand, any help fron other members would be great. thanks, steve

Raylor or Bob Llyod at Full Throttle Marine. They can do wonders with a 496.
Jay

For 3k About all you can do is exhaust by the time you get done with shippingt & thats if you install it yourself. That would be a system like Dana Or Stainless.. Cmi will be a lot more.. If you had more funds to spend I could hook you up with one of My Supercharger kits engineered for the 496 Mag Ho.. I just installed one on my personal boat.. It hauls ass.. The other good way to go is Ray's kit if you dont like blowers.. We also sell & install his. But 3k wont get you too far these days.. :)

Jamie / Lakeside


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i have a pro charger m5 18ib pound boost 1375hp 90 at half the power 540 inch it is fast

your last post you had a m4. Now you have a m5 in just under three minuites.

the Raylor kit looks good but you can do it for a lot less money. while it may not yield the same results but a few bolt-ons can go a long way.

Raylar kit is installed!! Soon to put the engine back in the boat!!

By the way this is my boat!!

Looks good!

When and how do I Supercharge ??
 

Whipple makes the only supercharger I would use on a NON-STOCK 496. They make a wondeful kit and at 5-7 lbs of boost with a correct ECM program they work well on 91 or better Octane. Whipple is also the only supercharger builder who has taken the time and effort to get their supercharger users proper ECM reprogramming. Anybody who tells you you don't need a different program in your ECM to run a supercharger is blowing Smoke Up Your A**.
It is not possible to go from negative manifold pressure to positive manifold pressure (boost) without serious changes in air fuel ratios and spark timing, and that won't be possible without changes in the ECM program !
The real issue is can supercharging be done reliably on a stock 496 block with stock pistons. My professional and personal expierence is NO, NO, NO!!
Why, because the stock 496 piston and iron cylinder head do not accept boost above 3-4 lbs without knock and most times under continued boost the piston fails in the area right next to the valve relief. I have seen to many more stock 496's that did NOT make it with supercharging,Whipple or otherwise than I have heard of or seen that did. Sure there will be a few here and there that with really good fuel, low boost and LUCK will make it longer, buts its a crap shoot at best. MY guess would be less than 15%. I don't consider those good odds at all !
It was not really the fault of the supercharger, it was a block not equipped for supercharging. Raylar now builds many 496's equipped for supercharging with proper pistons, rods , cams and programming that make well into the 700-800HP range without failure under boost of 5-8 psi.
Will they last as long between freshenings as a normally aspirated engine, my expeirence says NO, but most supercharged engines don't because they extract more power per cubic inch than normally aspirated engines and there is a price to be paid for that power per cubic inch increase. Its called higher stress loads, shorter ring and bearing life and sensitivity to fuel and heat issues that any supercharged engine will face. YOU ARE NOT GOING TO GET SOMETHING FOR NOTHING! Quit thinking about it or trying to get it, you won't get there and your boating expierences will be maddening and frustrating!
If you want the bigger power and torque levels of supercharging, start with a correctly equipped and prepared motor and the expense that goes along with that!
Be prepared for shorter overhaul periods and the expense of that and realize that anytime you extend the limits of horsepower per cubic inch you will always be closer to potential engine issues and problems.
If we build normally aspirated engines with supercharged equivalent power levels by kicking the compression up to lets say 12 to 1 or higher even with racing fuel required, the added horsepower per cubic inch will take its toll on the engine and its useful life. Overhaul periods will be sooner and the potential for short life failure will be there.
I am not trying to tell boaters not to use supercharging. Just do it right on the right foundation and be prepared for the costs of higher power levels ! Thats it in a nutshell, Hope you are careful and well thought with your engine plans.

Best Regards,
Ray @ Raylar

Very well said Ray. I agree 100%!

Your 525 package in the above pictures is beautiful. If it works as well as it looks you have a winner.

love the red! is it a biotch to keep clean or not to bad?
cheers on the new motor, looks like a great setup you have.

That is a sharp looking boat. The red looks great. Very unique choice.

Perl-
I had a red boat 15+ years ago, it's no harder to keep clean than white.
Only downside was it got HOT in the sun. Was great for early&late season boating though-- you could lay on the deck and absorb sun like a reptile.

I agree totally with the above comments. Great looking motor going into a hot looking 25 Outlaw. I´m sure you are going to really enjoy it, too!

[QUOTE=socalstone;2487715 Was great for early&late season boating though-- you could lay on the deck and absorb sun like a reptile.[/QUOTE]

haha. ive always liked solid colored boats. my friend has a boat thats all black on the sides, and half way through july after being in the water for a month or so it looks like crap. thats why i was thinking it would be a biotch to keep clean.

Not really!! I own 4 detailing shops here in sweden:signs069: works out pretty well for me!!

Thank´s you should bring your 25 OL to the Stockholm pokerrun. 3 Boats from Germany so far.
Take a look at: http://www.pokerrunstockholm.se/ Anmälda

//Fredrik

Well now I know there will be another 25OL up there, I shall look into it (gotta give all those Panteras a challenge). My girlfriend is from the Swedish west coast, by the way.

Cool! Gothenburg?? I was born there. Lived in California for a total of 9 years. Back in Sweden stockholm now. That´s a nice Baja you´ve got there, fast too! I'm hoping to hit 75Mph after the upgrade.

Uddevalla. We go back there sometimes to visit her folks, mainly at the summer house out on the coast. Great boating, but a different sort to what I´m used to. Fishing for Mackeral, the spool in one hand and a beer in the other:cool-smiley-011:.

What is the revlimit set at on your 525 motor? A labbed 26" Bravo will be the place to start at, I think.

Love the Raylar kit! Looks awesome

Dont forget to post the numbers once you've had a chance to test. I will be anxious to see what it produces.

I have a Bravo 26p not labbed yet also have a 27p Hydromotive that I'm going to try. The Poker Run will end in a place called Sandhamn it´s a good place to party..:drink:

Numbers will be posted!!

The rev limiter is set to 5400rpm!!