33 Outlaw with boxes and big HP?
 

Anybody running a 33 Outlaw with 12" boxes and bigger HP? Curious as to what props you are running. Got a buddy with a 2003 33 Outlaw with 12" boxes and 500 EFI's tweaked by Brad Smith to 605 HP. XZ drives, 1.5 ratio, standard 30" Bravo I 4 blades, turning 5,400 RPM. Estimated prop slip is excessive at @ 21% (still need a GPS number to verify but we know we are close). Curious as to whether folks are getting 4 blades to work or going 5 blades. Thanks.

Hit up Jaay Tee I am sure he can answer all your questions.
Are you ready to by DRIVES!!!

15 1/4X32 maximus's is what I run. ( worked by bblades, turning in)

I have 32 bravo's also, and they're useless on this thing.

I ran a set of 31 P5X's last fall and they didnt seem
to carry the bow as well as the max's do.

The Max's knock off about 500 rpm over the bravo's
of comparable pitch.

The max's get the slip down in the 15% neighborhood.

Whats the prop height? If it is around 3.75 or 4inches 4 blades will work. I think the bow starts to porpous under 3.5 inch prop height and below thus needing 5 blades.

Which boxes are you running? Imco or Stellings? I'm guessing if your running Imco Neutral box then your prop height is too deep for 5 blades, but again I'm not comparing HP or boats.

I'm running Imco Neutral boxes with -2 shorties spinning 30p labbed bravo's by Bblades at 5100rpm's

Of course totally different boats and HP. IMO a little slip is good it saves your drives.

Lol! When my buddy said how much HP Brad Smith got out of his 500's some of us started a pool on when he would shuck the first drive (actually, he has gone through 3 already in 300 hours with stock power). I said he would shuck one filling up at the gas station before the shakedown cruise! :lolhit:

I would have to measure it. The owner will not know off the top of his head. Thanks.

Stellings. Yes, some slip is good but 21% is excessive. I'll get a prop height measurement off his boat.

You running Imco boxes? Thanks for the comparison on the Maxiums vs. P-5X's. I think we have access to a pair of 29 P-5X's. His props are currently turning out. Also, are your 575's stock or modified?

Mine are Stellings.

Prop shaft height is in the 3" neighborhood.

I juiced mine up back in 09'...they're probably in the 650 hp
range

Turning in was worth a little over 1 mph, and it comes
out of the hole with less blow out.

I also have a nice collection of junk XR parts:eek:

I just checked and they are Stelling boxes as well. My guess is the prop shaft heights should be the same between the two boats. What drives you running now? Imco?

Judging by the slip #, I'd say they are too.

I havent ran the 32 bravo's since I juiced it up,
but as I recall, the slip was like 23%

For comparison purposes at cruise, the bravos would
run 52 mph @ 3800 rpm, the max's run 55 mph @ 3500 rpm.

I run regular XR's.....the IMCO's have the same junk
XR gears from mercury in them, so there's no benefit as I see it. ( until you go to a SCX)

Thanks for all the info! Once we get a true GPS number we'll call Brett at Bblades and get him working on a new set of props. Right now he is at 81 MPH at 5400 RPM but that is a non-GPS speedo. His speedo is actually fairly accurate and not too happy but my guess is the GPS number will be a tad slower and therefore the slip number will go even higher than 21%. Boat is an animal now once it rolls over but just doesn't have the speed it should have on the big end given the HP. What is your top end speed?

Best it's done was 94 and some change ( then a vertical shaft
let go)

Depending on humidity it runs 88-92 under normal circumstances.

My buddy was hoping for 88 MPH with the right props. I thought 85 MPH might be doable. Thanks again for all your help! I'll keep everyone posted with what props he goes with and the final numbers.

He'll like the 5 blades, trust me.

Another thing ( with these high x boats) is try to move
some weight to the rear,( or get rid of the junk up front) since trim leverage is diminished, you cant carry the bow as well.

This has been a work in process for me, that I started
last fall, and as soon as I get done with the engines
in my buddy's Cig, I'll be back at it.

BTW, what did he do to get over 600 hp out of a set of 500EFI's ?

I agree you have to move the CG back
my propshafts are 3.75 below the boat ,my slip is 11.5 spinning props in no boxes 31p5x 5800 rpms running right at 100 mph, 800 hp aside .I did move as much weight back as I could and I carry two 55lb bumbbells one on each side,I noticed a few years back that it was faster with 3 people in back seat ,up stream .and easier to get on plain with the props deeper in the water.My swim platform is about 4 inches from the water compaired to stock boat its about 10 inches . I still have full gally fride full ,mico,porcelin head 20 inch flat sceen ac/heat . Its hard to belive that new with HO,s it did 71 mph. If its running good at the time of the shootout I would like to run . Just to say I did it. 89 mph with 625 hp 94 mph with 710 hp.

VERY Nice!

My 32 Caliber (became 33 Outlaw) runs 89.9 mph with Steliings boxes 2" up and 2 inch shorties. Engines dynoed at 624 HP and 605 TQ running stock 28 (15% slip) 4 blades on 1.50 XR's spinning 6000 rpm. With stock 30's it only ran 87 mph at 5600 rpm (21% slip) but the 30's needed more trim to get the rpm's up. I think labbed 30's will get me to the 90 mark I already have a set of 30 BBlades to try next month.

Brad Smith rebuilt them for him. He's not too mechanically inclined so I'm not getting a lot of detail out of him. Nor have I seen the work sheets from Brad. My best guess is they are now 509's with some port work to the stock heads, a slight bump in compression, different cams, ECU reflashes, and larger injectors. Dyno numbers were 605 HP/600 ft. lbs. torque. Turning them 5400 RPM with rev limiters set at 5800. Set up to run on 89 octane. I know he did not go with aluminum heads.

Must be in the compression bump ?

We're a few short on the hp, but 606 on the tq. using
stock compression, good heads, cam ecm, asm tb.

One more thing,
If he was breaking drives when stock, have him
check the u-joints in the driveshaft in the box to see if they're phased properly ( each end yoke running in the same plane)

Mine were 90* out of phase( which doesnt help
with driveline harmonics)

Chances are that the same person rigged my boat might
have done his since they're only a year apart.

He may have also done some intake work and a different throttle body. Again, don't know for sure but I know it is hard to hit 600HP in the 500 EFI's without some intake work.

He ordered his boat through GSC. He busted two drives in the first year. He said they found some alignment problem but that is all he told me. Again, he is not mechanically inclined so he had no idea what they found or did. Then the drives lasted a couple seasons until he blew the top cap off the port drive cruising about 45 MPH.

What else are you moving or removing? Once I got the batteries to the transom and all the trim and tab pumps as far back as possible, I ran out of weight to move back. I want to get more out of the cabin but once I yanked the fridge and microwave and converted the panels in the "bed" to aerospace panels I ran out of ideas. There are a few other things I am going to do with the cuddy seats but thats my last thing to do to remove weight.

Alignment problem ??....I bet we had the same issue.

I'm going to do the panels under the v berth, like you mentioned.

I'm thinking about adding weight ( like Bobby did) back
in the engine compartment, in the area outside of each
stringer, on the outside of the engines.

What I think that would be neat, is a bladder ( like wake
board boats use) that would fit down on each side of the
center stringer....that way, you keep the center of gravity
low.

I dont know how feasable that is though.

What I do know iis that sand bags or tractor weights on the
swim platform is out of the question, according to the mrs.:D

Do yourself a favor, take the stellings driveshafts out , rebuld them and have them balanced. Upon delivery, mine were out of phase too. I just put my engines back in, while they were out, I took the shafts to a driveshaft shop and had them balanced. First, always run them "in phase" second, dont let anyone tell you they are "too small" to be balanced. I dont think they are balanced from Stellings but I can tell you mine were WAY out of balance. The drivshaft guy said they were really bad. I suspect this is what set my knock sensor off when I first put the stellings boxes on my boat.

Driveshaft maint. is on my to do list.

I heard somewhere that Stellings has some kind of coupler like Merc that you can put on the fly wheel.
Anybody know if that is correct?

Do the driveshafts a flange coupling? Is that what you mean by running in the same plane...making sure the u-joint caps line up at the coupling? Sorry, never seen the inside of the boxes so trying to picture what you are talking about.

OK, found some pics of the boxes. I doubt when he said "alignment problem" that it was the carrier bearing inside the box. You would think that would just affect the ease in getting the drive to mount and the spline wear on the drive's driveshaft. The driveshaft from the box to the flywheel is a flanged coupling at both ends. So is the phasing you are talking about between the box driveshaft and the drive's driveshaft? I'm surprised Stelling's does not balance those driveshafts.

Yes, its called a "Drive Saver"

http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/g...lings-box.html

Here is a link that comes up from time to time. They are $400 a piece and have a 4 week lead time. I opted out and decided not to use them (again) you are increasing the driveshaft angle to accommodate the drive saver since its about 1.25 inches thick.

Go down to the bottom of this link, it gives an illustration
on phasing.

On their jackshft engines and staggered ( driveshaft models) they( merc) do recommed phasing the driveshaft with
the outdrive u-joints. (which I started to do after reading it in the latest manual I got.)

http://jniolon.clubfte.com/driveline...nephasing.html

Easy enough to understand. Thanks for the link!

Great info and some nice set ups. I just wish I had some drives on the back of my boat to turn some good numbers! This thread is keeping me motivated though

BTW, saw the boat owner last night as we were helping another buddy re-bunk his trailer and he said the motors are now 522's. That helps to explain the 605 HP.

Whats your 33 run with 830 HP?

I do not know since my drives did not hold up long enough to find out!

I have seen 95 on gps EVERY time I push the sticks forward for a few seconds. This is FULL of fuel, 4+ people, 2 full coolers, all gear for a 4 day weekend sleeping on the boat! Never tried empty with just me in it.

According to J T , Crayolacrazy , BBlades and others I have lots of room to work with props. Currently running 30" stock bravo 4 blades turning out.

Looking forward to some new stronger drives, maybe bravo arneson conversion or the new imco's they are keeping secret. Then some aggresive props and hopefully triple digits!

Just bite the bullet and buy a pair of SCX,they have been out long enough,and still no upper gear failures,Bolt a pair on and go enjoy that horsepower.(good talkin to you yesterday,lookin forward to seein you at the shootout)

Yeah it was nice talkin! Some scxs would be nice!

I run xz uppers imco lowers , change fliud about every 5 weekend or after a hard weekend . I also run amsoil 75 /90 marine .

How many hours can u go between rebuilds? I could only make it 30 to 50 going easy on my imco SC drives. I normally run over 100 hours a summer so making it a couple years without touching drives would be nice!