25' Outlaw setup tinkering
 

Who has played with their setup? Prop, drive, blueprinting, horsepower???? Bring it all on, I'm looking for a full education into what I can do with my soon to be rocket ship.

I have a 2001 25' OL which had a 496mag on it and I think my passengers were considering having tea and crumpets at WOT so I put in a 540 to make her scream. I'm running the original bravo drive(I know, should step up to something with real hardware) and a 27p Mirage Plus(non-labbed) prop. I'm getting between 74 and 77 at WOT depending on conditions. The motor has about 25 hours on it so it may not have loosened up yet.

What have you guys done? Any suggestions? Drive height?

charger
 

slap a procharger on it. I have a 24ft outlaw 1997 with a 502mag ho, and i have a m1 procharger on it. But when you do that watch the gas leak out the back end when you take off. I was happy with the procharger. It gave me about 120 hp on the engine, They run about $5900.

That would be easy enough, but I'd rather not cut my engines life in half.....I'm talking about pure setup, drive height, etc....My next change will be to lab the prop, go to full hydraulic and an upgrade on the drive next winter. Just trying to get ahead of the 8 ball on what others have done that has worked.

On your 2001 and with the speed you are running, a shorty will net you a couple of mph. It has a fairly conservative x if in stock location. If you go to a shorty, you will need a 4 blade prop. Using a -3 IMCO and then use spacers to dial in the height is good way to go imo. About the steering, you run a 70+ mph boat with a 540. Put that on the #1 spot of your list. Regarding the labbing, where are you in terms of revs and the rev band for your motor? Labbing what you have is a very good idea, epecially if you are at the lower rpms of your rev band and don't want to run a shorty. Call Bblades or Greg Hittner about this. If your current best is 77, 80 is not out of reach with a nicely labbed M+. You can also have a B1 labbed and stay at or possibly gain a little speed but with better mid range and faster time to plane ect. This would also be the prop to lab if you go with a shorty. Just remember that every boat is different and they don't behave exactly the same.

Good luck with your project.

Steering, steering, steering!

Thanks A.O, great info.....the steering is at the top of my list for sure...I don't like how it feels at that speed right now and I'm definitely suspect of running those speeds with anyone in the boat. I'm running a stock 27p M+ at 4850-5000 rpm at WOT, running 45-48 at 3500 rpm, 60ish at 4000 rpm....labbing would probably take me about right where I want to be at WOT 5100-5350ish. I've heard the B1 makes this hull a little squirrely with aft lift??? Why would I need a 4 blade with the shorty?(just trying to understand the changes the shorty would give me, I'm not exactly new, but I do have a lot to learn).

Exactly;)

It is true that a stock B1 in some cases can cause issues with stern lift. This is also why I ponited out that labbing it is needed. It's a fairly flat lifting prop, but it can easily be labbed for the bow lift the Bajas need and then you won't have the loose transom issues some experience with the B1, Q-IV or Q-IV-X ect. props. In terms of 3 vs. 4 blades, that is simply a question of how much blade area is in the water. When you raise the X or shorten the drive X with a shorty, it goes without saying, that you have less prop in the water. Therefore you need more blade area to keep the bite in the water. Larger diameters and more blades are the common way to fix this. Depending on how you go, realive to where you are now, you might still be able to run the 3 blade. When you go up, at some point, you will find your boat unable to get on plane with the 3 blade or blow out in turns ect. this is when you need one more blade. Do you know what your current x-dimension is, or how deep your prop shaft centerline sits?

I don't know how deep it is....how do you measure that?

Start by trimming your drive to neutral so that the prop shaft sits parallel to the keel/bottom. This is also a good time to mark it on your trim indicator if you haven't done that. Put a piece of masking tape or some other kind of tape you can write on, on the front of the drive. Mark the point where the prop shaft center line is on the front of the drive. Run a spirit level or straight edge along the keel to the front of the drive, directly in front of the center of the drive. Mark this point on the masking tape. Voila, there's your prop shaft centerline depth between those two marked points.

Perfect, I'll have a look at it this weekend!

Sounds like you are going in the right direction with your upgrades, some pictures would be nice. I agree with what other have said regarding steering....it won't net you anything but will be safer.

As far as upgrades, I have done some similar to my 25 Outlaw. I started with stock 496 HO and added Stelling extension box and IMCO 2" shortened lower and IMCO full steering. My prop shaft height is 3 1/2" below the bottom of my boat, and to be honest I didn't gain much as far as speed.....my original prop shaft height was 6 1/2". At the time I was running a labbed 24P Bravo1 4 blade prop and would see 64 MPH GPS WOT. The next off season I upgraded engine to 600+ HP and saw a dramatic speed increase...74 MPH to date but am running 600 RPMs off of where I need to be and haven't had a chance to mess with since. I am doing 74 MPH with an unlabbed 28P Bravo 1 and spinning it around 4900-5000 RPMs....I would like to be near 5500 RPMs. I honestly think I am losing some speed with the IMCO lower, my plan is to first put the 1" spacer in to lower the prop height a little and then put the stock bravo lower back on. I hope to do this all babck to back to get some very comparable results. I should be able to lab the proper prop after that.

If you have any other question let me know...other than that keep your results posted on here for the rest of us to decide what we would like to do for upgrades.

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baja man......your boat looks great! I remember seeing the drive pic in another thread but the other pics look awesome also! Get a hold of me next time your boating in Traverse City.

So whats your advice for the OP? Wait till you finish dialing in?! Start with steering for now, or just a stand off box and steering? Wait on the shorty lower till after we see if your boat gains speed by lowering the drive down a little?

Definately not wait on me but install steering first. As far as the upgrades, I have heard of other 25 OL do well with boxes and shorties but mine had minimal gains. I know for a fact the cheapest and most noticable gain will come from a labbed prop. You can always try different propshaft height.....it also is much easier to swap a lower unit than an extension box. Every boat is different on how they react so just be cautious on what to expect.

Not sure I understand this corretly, whether your current prop is labbed or not. But if your current prop is not labbed, you should think about labbing your B1 before lowering the prop shaft. As mentioned before, the B1 in stock form is not a prop with a lot of bow lift which the Bajas like and that could be the answer. 3½" is agressive, but not insanely so. I know Smitty have had some steering issues at really high speeds with hes 1000+ hp 272 running high, but boats are different and speed of course have an impact as well.

I have some experience in setting up a 25 outlaw. I would go with the stelling extension box. You can set it up in the 1up neutral or 1 down position. I went in the up position and used the stock bravo drive. You have to have hydraulic steering with a box. Like in the pictures of Baja Mans boat.when doing the box you don't have to put transome brackets on the transom for the steering . I would get your drive height around the 4.25 to 4.5 with the box. I am running a bravo 26 that is labed. I am over 70 on gps with my set up.

@ A.O. Razor......current prop is unlabbed....28P B1....I definately will get a labbed prop just unsure which one, a 26P or 28P, maybe both? I wanted to see which lower setup was fastest before the lab....but am leaning toward having both labbed and stock on hand at same time to see how each reacts with different lower changes.

i know the hull design between the 25 and 24 outlaws are slightly different. but would the setup be about the same for both hulls? Im running a 525SC that dynoed 570hp and 600tq, stock bravo one drive, with a bravo 24 that has been worked with extra cup, Spinning 5400rpms im GPS right at 70mph. was wanting to play with several different props and was also looking at a different drive, but almost looks like the prop might be the more bang for the buck

steering
 

I agree with the steering. i had the same issue with my boat. it would line walk alittle at 75mph. I am installing as soon as it is out of storage full imco hydraulic steering. The steering will run you about $3885. i was told by imco engineer, that you are better off with full hydraulic for a few reason. You bipass the tiller arm, which is probably going to be shot in your boat becasue of the power, Also if the steering fails with full hydraulic, you won't lose steering if it fails ( it will just turn like an old tractor). Add on hydraulic or regular steering is bad becasue if it fails the outdrive will flopp to one side and spin you around and you will be flying out of the boat. Plus a regular steering cable won't last long, also it will wear out your g bearing and other components quicker.

I can wait to try it out. I like the info I got from the salesmen about the product compared to lathem brand . Lathem wants 5000$ for the same set up

m1 procharger
 

I have talked to different people about the charger. I called the company up too. My charger is not a real aggressive one. Also the owner told me that it is the only one mercury approves, on there engine. I talked to a couple of race shops. These guys said , as long as it is done right and correctly, I should be fine. The m1 procharger, from waht i was told is not a engine destroyer like alot of them becasue how it is built and how it produces the horse power. The only thing I have to watch it that my fuel pump doesn't **** the bed and i run out of gas. I have two fuel pumps on the boat with gauges. i am always keeping an eye on it. The only bad part is you shouldn't go below a 1/4 of a tank and you have to use 91 or better octane.

$3885 for full IMCO isn't bad.....where are you buying this from?

steering $$
 

I am buying it straight from imco the company. The steering parts are in the las vegas location. No sales tax. He tolde about 85$ to ship it to buffalo ny, where i live. This price includes all the hardware and enough hose for your boat. They send you enough hose he said. Also the lines, not sure whick ones he is talking about are stainless steel instead of a cheaper hose lathem uses. Also they stand behind there product and they are built suitable to hook up to the bajas. The engineer siad that if it does fail, At most it would cost 150$ to rebuild it. The parts to me sound better than the parts other company uses. And a little cheaper. Lathem system for my boat (single ram full hydraulic) plus tilt , and you must purchase the hoses separatly runs 5000$ plus tax and shipping

My system singel hydraulic with tilt steering and all harware is like 3880, and i included the shipping. I might be a couple dollars off but it is below 3900 with the shipping. The engineer said it is about a day and 1/2 labor if a marina does it. He said it is one of the best investments for the boat for safty and reliability besides the cooler or fridgerator for the beer.

the web site is www.imcomarine.com .

one other things. You have to know about your power steering pump why type and year it is. Because it will dictate what type of fitting he will send you. it has to do with the type of metal for one of the fittings on the pumps or something not sure, but when you order he will probably ask you, so you may need access to your boat. They will send you drawings and instuctions for instalation. good luck. i will be ordering mine sometime in april

i added hydraulic assit steering to mine. Used the Mayfair kit. and had it installed locally. Overall been very happy with it. Amazing how much better it feels with it. got about 2g in the setup. Eventually id like to upgrade to the full hydraulic. but got a few other things i wanna spend money on first.

Measured my X dimension....-7.5 to -8....what is normal/average for our boats? That seems pretty deep.

I added single IMCO hydro ram to mine and it made the steering feel like a different boat. $1600 plus install. I am running labbed 33 4 blade with 800HP. Only had in water a couple of times and still tinkering. Going to check my prop shaft measurement this wehttp://i652.photobucket.com/albums/u...t/IMG_0716.jpgek.

Was that add-on for that price?

Correct. Add-on.

Where does the hose go for cooling your top cap?

Anybody have an opinion on a -7.5 to -8 x dimension? Is that normal for a factory setup? That seems really deep....

7.5 is where mine is Chaz.

Holy crap that seems deep....mine was 6.5" stock before the changes.

If you need 500-600 rpms, the 26 would probably be the prop to lab. You can get 300-400 out of the 28, but it also depends on what you want. Bblades or Greg Hittner can tell you which one to lab and how. In any case, you want more bow lift and you should try this before lowering your prop shaft. If you can get your hands on one, you could try a Rev4 in 25". That is pitch wise very close to the B1 26 and see how your boat does with a bow lifting prop, just to get an idea.

That is deep. Back in 01-02 Baja started to raise the x to about 15-15½", so therefore the difference in the x from the ealier years. If you decide to go on with this, don't do it all at once, you won't be able to keep track of what is doing what and what is good or bad. At least a -2 preferebly a -3 lower, prop, 3" box, is the way I'd go in your case. In any case, get your prop shaft up, either by raising the x dimension or raising the prop shaft via a sorty lower. If you raise the x-dim either by box or re-installation of the drive, 17"-17½" is pretty good for a combination of performance and comfort, without a shorty and you can always space down or install a shorty if you want the prop shaft @ less than 4" below. If you don't want to re-cut your transom, the IMCO +3 box is a good choice, since it requiers raising of the motor and "only" requiers rerouting of the exhaust or new exhaust holes and not a reglass of the entire transom. It is still a lot of work though.

That braided hose you see uses nose cone water pressure to the top cap then out jets on the side of the drive cap to cool.

For the 3500$ a extension box will cost I would buy a like new procharger set-up for same price or less and just rebuild the motor sooner and you will see as much speed increase as you dare to run boost (5-25 mph), everything else besides a labbed prop will only get you a mph here or there IF your lucky. My boat is considerably faster than yours but the stellings box slowed me down at the higher speeds I run and the imco shorty slowed me down and made boat dangerous to run fast. My 272 runs 75 or so with normally aspirated 540 and 100 with the blower belt on, Smitty

Don't forget bud, when you get back from overseas give me a shout and I will meet up with you with a truck load of props so you can find what you need, Smitty

I haven't forgot...still want to try them all out. Hoping to be home early Sept....I may even get a weekend late fall this year to test everything I want to including somke lowers. That will leave me the entire winter to get labbed what I need to without down time.

I'm going to try to bring this back from the dead. Anyone have more input on the ideal drive height for a 25 OL? I got antsy and opened a can of worms with my 25 OL this spring, hydraulic steering, tabs, extension box, rerigged almost the whole boat yada yada yada. Anyways my drive height is 4-1/4" below the pad now, started at 6-7/8", a 2-5/8" lift from the imco extension box. Just picked up a 25 rev 4, haven't been able to get out and do a wot test yet, but from previous testing a 23 rev 4 seemed to carry the whole boat better than a 26 bravo, so I went with a 25. Both props had my hand held gps switching between 67 and 68, the rev 4 at the limiter (5150) and the 26 I believe at 4700. There was a strong chop, 1.5-2', while testing, but with the 4 blades and the extension box and hydraulic steering the boat flys across the tops of the waves and runs like its on rails. With the drive deeper and a 25 labbed mirage plus I saw a best of 70.

I did all these mods in prep for more HP, but for now I'm kinda hoping I'd be able to at least keep the speed I had. Wild card 09 did very similar mods but dropped a 525 in right away and says he was seeing 81.2, so I thought with a good running 496ho I'd be able to see 70 maybe a click or two more... But maybe more HP is needed to get the real benefits of the higher X dimension

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Following I'm planning on doing the same to my 25 outlaw this winter.. Might get in touch with ya and ask for tips

Sounds good. Got the boat out for a couple wot runs and rpm/speed checks and I honestly don't think I could be anymore disappointed in this 25 rev 4. It didn't act anything like the other three props I tested, a 24 bravo, 26 bravo, and a 23 rev 4. This prop cavitated and just slipped like crazy, could barely use the trim before I could feel the prop break loose. 4000rpm was 48mph = 24% slip! I was anywhere from 9-11% with the other props. Bizarre. I got calls in to BBlades where I bought the prop as well as Mercury racing to see if someone can shed some light on this. I think I was actually better of with my three blade mirage plus+ than this thing. I hope I just got a lemon prop....

Curious why you mounted your tab's like that