24 outlaw out of control
 

maybe some of you baja owners can help me out here.
i recently built a 650hp 556ci engine for a guy and after tring to dial it in, the handling of the boat goes from bad to deadly after 70 mph, i did have the balls to go 80 with it but i was in gods hands. here is a a couple of things i noticed, with a mirage 3 blade prop, it was very slow to get on plane once up and running the boat porpised very bad with out any trim and then with more speed, started chine walking, changed to a bravo one and saw a big difference getting on plane and boat ran flatter in water but then again the dreaded chine walk starts about 60 mph.
now i know the drive is mounted very low on these boats, and my guess needs a shorter lower unit. the boat acually runs out of the water with speed and trim tabs are usless with any high speed. any experience shared would be helpful on this 24 outlaw
dave

I wish I could help you. One thing for sure...that is a lot of MOTOR for that size of boat. Be careful.

I have a friend who knows someone with a 25' Outlaw and it will run high 90's. Blower motor w/nitrious. I'll see what I can find out for you. If I find any info. for you, I'll post it. May take some time to get it though.

One thing I do know about this boat, is that, the outdrive does have a nose cone on it. Would that help with the stability at that high of speed? (I'm still learning this stuff myself)

You may want to post this question in the Technical Q & A area.

Hey Doc,

Check out this thread:

http://www.offshoreonly.com/forum/sh...threadid=28576

There's another 90+mph 24 outlaw, they might be able to give you some pointers....That is an awful lot of horsepower in that size boat, though.

Take Care!

I have a 24 Outlaw with just over 600hp. I went to a full hydraulic steering after the chine walk became evident that it was fast approaching dangerous (that and I got tired of being beat up by the girlfriend every time the boat started to walk). Steering helped, but seat time is what's needed. I was told you definitely have to drive at that power level (anticipate the chine walk and make small, opposite steering inputs/corrections to keep boat stable). If you try a shorter drive, keep us posted as to the results.

both my buddies have 24 outlaws with BIG hp. i rode on both of them this past weekend....one @ 90 mph, and one closer to 95 mph.

They are both equiped with K-planes and full, dual ram hydraulic steering. i wasn't running either boat, so i'm not sure what the positioning of the tabs and drive trim were. But niether chine walked too bad. Of course there was a little above 80, but nothing that scared me. I did notice them both "working" the steering wheel back and forth. So maybe the dual full hydraulic steering keeps the boat straight (if they didn't have that i could only imagine how they would have to "work" the steering wheel).

But on both boats, at 70 mph it felt very stable.

The 3 blade mirage is about 80% of your problem. I dropped a 520 horse motor in my 98 24 Outlaw this winter and saw better speeds (74 gps vs 71 gps) and a 1,000 times better "attitude" of the boat with a Rev 4 23p (5200 rpm)than I did with the 23p Mirage plus. With all that hp you have to be over 600 ft/lbs/tq, so make the motor grunt with a Rev 4. I have about 575 on the tq and have enjoyed just a little chine walking, nothing a little flick of the wheel or quick press to the tabs/trim won't fix. With the three blade that thing was a handful over about 63 or 64 mph. this has all been done with absolutely no hydraulics what so ever on the steering. Stupid, yes, becasue I almost broke a steering cable, so the new hydraulic parts are supposed to arrive today. That will also help. So with the rev 4 and the new steering I will probably eliminate about 90% of the walking. As mentioned above, seat time is key.

By the way, a 22p Bravo walked alot as well. Porpoise was really bad with the old motor, but now I get just a little in the high fifties if all trimmed and tabbed out. Again, just need to know the boat. My labbed prop should get me to 76-77 gps, but with guys hitting 80's and even 90's in these boats, a few small changes should be all you need to dial it in to get a relatively decent attitude. Good luck, be careful and feel free to ask all you want, all this time and money I have spent may as well go towards helping someone else out..... :D

Oh yeah, the 25 Outlaw is a completely different beast than the 24. 24 design is a 1980's design, 25 is the new design. My .02 A4

Ohhhh.....

forgot to mention....Both of the 24 Outlaws are running 4 blade Bravo props. One has a 30p on an XR drive, and the other has a 32 pitch on a Bmax drive.

GREAT! The Mirage 3 blade 23 pitch is just what I have!:mad:
Though I knew it wasn't going to work :rolleyes:
So this is what I'm going to be looking forward too hmmmm? considering I'm getting ready to throw 650HP at my boat too. Oh well we'll see.......:rolleyes:

By the way, is that motor you put in blown?? Stock drive?? You say you hit 80, was there more in the stick or was that WOT??

Thanks.

Am I correct that the boat is a pad bottom?? It sounds to me like it is riding on the prop not on the pad. My old glastron did the same thing. Raised the X and the handling problems went away. Try the 2 or maybe even 3 inch shorter drive and I would think it would drastically help the chine walk problem. The porpose problem may get slightly worse though. I just put 2 inch shorter drives on my boat ( no comparison ) and it now porposes slightly where it never did it before ( tabs solve the problem-- or trim down ) But the handling improved a lot. With that size boat I would go as high as You could and still get on plane with the 4 blade prop. Unless you plan on pulling skiers.

Tinkerboater, does IMCO now make a 3 inch shorter drive? I am running a 2" short IMCO and would love to try a shorter one if it were available. The short shaft drive on my Baja along with full hydraulic steering made a huge improvement in its handling at speed. You still have to drive the boat and that will take some seat time to master. I am sure there are plenty of guys on the board that have tried the short drive on the 24 Outlaw that can let you know how it worked. On my 210 Sport it is a great improvement.

OK guys, i guess this boat is a 25 ft outlaw, it's a 1995 outlaw sst. no it's not supercharged, but 556 ci with serious cylinder heads, intake, stellings headers. i pretty much have built twin engine 30+ stuff for several years. so this single smaller boat is a new game. oh buy the way, i think i can drive and thottle this boat. this boat gets so violent that it blows the v belts off. acually sunday, blew all three off and broke the sea pump belt.
can you say......tow job.......
dave

If you are blowing V-belts you have a pulley alignment problem. I was running both of my engines at 5800 rpm for 2 months and never blew a belt. And yes IMCO now makes a drive that is 3 inches shorter. You probably have one belt that came off and that belt took the others out. Try someones 2 inch shorter drive and if you like it and the boat comes on plane good with a 4 blade prop then buy the 3 inch shorter one. If need be you can shim it down 1/2 or 1 inch. Y ou will probably gain at least 5 mph and greatly improve your handling. With my glastron I ended up raising the prop 5 inches. ( 2 1/2 with recutting transom and 2 1/2 with alpha SS ) Baot was unbeleavable.

To raise the x-dimension don't you have to seal up the transom and re-cut it?? That would be spendy I would think!

In the old days, yes. It would be a pain in the ass...But IMCO has available different length lower units which effectively changes the x-dim.

Thanks BD. I kind've thought that, but didn't know how much you can raise with just the lower end unit.....What do they cost anyway??

Tank

Tank, if you go to the water with that 23 Mirage you better have a rev limiter set. Not sure how hard you want to spin that motor, but I saw 5600 rpm with that same prop. You will be into the 6k. Also, it is going to handle like a 3 wheeled shopping cart:D

:D :D LOL! Allan where the hell do you come up with this stuff man??!! "three wheeled shopping cart"!:D I'm going to try to get some bigger 4 blades...plus I'm just going to chill untill it's broken in right;)

HeHeHe.........there is a 24 hour twisted circus occuring between my ears, all are welcome.........

Hey, I just blasted one of my buddies on the "Cincinnati Poker Run" thread in general discussion. go have a peek. If I had any idea how to post it here, I would. Daze, don't even waste you time trying to explain it to me........ I plant bushes for a living while I am not out beating on my mule.......;)

The bottom 4 inches of the transom on the glastron was bad -- So while I was replacing the transom --why not raise the X. It was 1/2 inch low ( cavitation plate was actually 1/2 inch below the pad. ) So I recut it 2 1/2 inches up.

Doctor Dave I would love to know what these guys are doing to solve these problems. I have a 24 Outlaw with some big power And I have the same problem..........Right around 70+ I get chine walk some times I can drive throught it but most of the time I can't. I have a imco 2" shorter drive and I think it's worse with that on it feels like the boat is to wet. I have to trim the hell out of it to bring the bow up. I went back to the stock case. I have tried 4 bladded and 3 bladded props. tried every type of water conditions still the same thing. tried using tabs in every position. Nothing seems to work well enough to feel safe.

My thoughts are that the 24-25 outlaw are meant to run 65-67mph. I think there is to much deadrise for a boat that small Great cruising boat for the rougher stuff. I could be way off on this theory but I will not give up I will try to solve things out. If I learn anything I will tell you.

24 Baja

510" twin turbo twin intercooled running 10psi boost

Imco shorty drive latham full hydrauliuc steering

DJG--- is there any hook in the bottom??? If no then it sounds like you need to add a little cup to the prop or add some rocker to the bottom.

djg, thanks for the reply, seems your in the same situation. i am ordering the new bravo sport master lower unit for the boat and installing external steering, hopefull that will help. thats intresting you say have to trim the hell out of it to get bow lift, this boat i have here, has way to much bow lift. trim has to negative, other wise its loose..way loose. i might consider putting on some 380 trim tabs, something that will touch the water when going over 60. seems these bennett tabs are way to short, and do no good when the boat is running over 60 mph.
dave

Allan, that was a beautiful tongue lashing...still not as good as your Shorgasm sighting! :D :D :D :D :D :D :o

HAHAHAHAAAA, gracious' (that means thank you in spanish you dumb s**ts.....:D ), problem is I don't remember what I said to ole' shoregasm. We used to go back and forth non-stop!! Hilarious posts last year about this time or so.....HAHAHAHAHAAA.

As for handling, the tabs definetly have an impact at WOT but, 280 or 380 planes would be alot better. However, you can only do so much to correct the fact that this is a 24 foot 1980's hull design. I also run with lots of trim and tuck the drive when I am coming onto bad water. I do this rather than pull out of the throttle, unless I am looking at huge crusier or barge waves. I find mine runs better and gets on top of the water if I leave the drive trimmed hard and play with the tabs in general. Crusing is different........Hard to explain, because all the conditions are different every day. Seat time!!

DJG, you got the goodies, surprised you can't get it dialed in. Hope I can help, let me know. LAter.

I have the second 24 (Sport) Outlaw ever shipped from Baja (so I'm told by Baja). It's a 1987 with about 400+ hp at the moment. 5 years ago I had some bottom issues so while they were fixing it I had Baja send me the cutout from one of their Bravo installs. Had the glass man glass it into the transom and re-cut the hole, 2 1/2" higher than stock. At the same time I had a 475 hp motor built and when I got it dialed in (I was running a 23" Power Tech prop then) I got 70+ once (before the motor imploded) and didn't have a bit of chine walk. None. And I do NOT have hydraulic steering. Currently the boat will run about 62 or so and has a bit of a porpious but nothing terribly bad. Running the same prop in a 21" (Power Tech). No chine walking. I have been driving this boat for 8+ seasons now and have only ever had it chine walk one time. Took a boat wake from the side while trying a WFO max speed run with a really light load.

I run big tabs (not K-planes, but they are 16" long) and stock steering, 1999 Bravo performance lower unit. And for those who are not familiar with the bottom of this boat it is a 24* pad bottom. Pad is 4-6" wide at the transom and tapers forward 5'. The outside lifting strake on each side has a small hook in it. Perhaps 1/2" drop over 6" or so. Baja informed me that if I took the hooks out I would cause more handling issues than I could ever want. Slow time to plane, chine walking, porpoising, etc...

Dave, Try a Hydromotive Quad IV on your boat. I just helped out 2 friends this weekend with the same problems your having and the results were awesome! One boat was a 232 and the other a 22 Twilight. These props work very well! I run one also. Just something to try before you make the bigger investments. Scott

One more thing comes to mind, if all else fails. Check the balance of the boat....batteries, etc. Also, if your motor is all out of allign, that is a massive chunk of rotating metal that can cause handling problems. Just think about it. Get it lined up correctly, not just so the outdrive goes in. Get a low tolerance allignment tool and line that thing up correctly. It had to have helped mine becasue it's lined up perfectly and I have very, very little chine problems with a Rev 4.