Anyone have a FORCE model (removing hook?)
01-08-2002, 07:04 AM
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Anyone have a FORCE model (removing hook?)
I have an 89 Force 235. Repowered with a 502 and added Lightning’s. Last summer I added a nose cone (the drive was the 89 blunt case Bravo) to the lower unit. This seemed to increase the stern lift to the point of not needing to use any tab at cruise speed. At WOT the stern lifts pretty high and the bow will not come up much at all. The net effect is I have more boat out of the water at the stern but the nose is down. You can really feel it wanting to bow steer.
Prop is a 25 Mirage Plus. Top speed was down maybe 1-2 mph at WOT in the flat water and about the same in the rough. The reason it is the same in rougher water is I do not have to use any tab now except to level out the ride. At cruise and WOT a small amount of right tab is needed to level out the ride, this would be right button forcing left tab down. I think I am on the right track with the nose cone; it just killed the bow lift. The stern lift is great for cruising as no extra tab is needed where previously it was. This means the cone gave me the stern lift but perhaps a bit too much.
BAJA sent me the specs on the hook that they put in the Force hull. It is a ¼ inch triangle from the second flat surface in to a point 12 inches forward in a triangle shape. I was thinking of sanding off the hook on the starboard side a little too compensate for the amount of tab that needs to be down on the left side. Has anyone with a Force removed the hook? I know that removing the hook can have drastic effects but if I remove a small amount at a time it should be able to control the result.
Currently I have no problems getting on plane. I am thinking that maybe BAJA put the hook into this hull as it was sold with a 350 or BB option in 89 and tabs were not standard.
Any thoughts?
Tim T
Prop is a 25 Mirage Plus. Top speed was down maybe 1-2 mph at WOT in the flat water and about the same in the rough. The reason it is the same in rougher water is I do not have to use any tab now except to level out the ride. At cruise and WOT a small amount of right tab is needed to level out the ride, this would be right button forcing left tab down. I think I am on the right track with the nose cone; it just killed the bow lift. The stern lift is great for cruising as no extra tab is needed where previously it was. This means the cone gave me the stern lift but perhaps a bit too much.
BAJA sent me the specs on the hook that they put in the Force hull. It is a ¼ inch triangle from the second flat surface in to a point 12 inches forward in a triangle shape. I was thinking of sanding off the hook on the starboard side a little too compensate for the amount of tab that needs to be down on the left side. Has anyone with a Force removed the hook? I know that removing the hook can have drastic effects but if I remove a small amount at a time it should be able to control the result.
Currently I have no problems getting on plane. I am thinking that maybe BAJA put the hook into this hull as it was sold with a 350 or BB option in 89 and tabs were not standard.
Any thoughts?
Tim T
01-08-2002, 07:21 AM
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Hey Tim,
What kind of speeds are you seeing with the 502 in it? What did it have in it before and how fast was that? My wife likes the old Baja Force line and is trying to talk me into one. She likes the space in the cockpit and with 2 kids I agree it would be nice. Do you know if Baja ever made the 235's with Bolsters?
Just Curious,
Todd
What kind of speeds are you seeing with the 502 in it? What did it have in it before and how fast was that? My wife likes the old Baja Force line and is trying to talk me into one. She likes the space in the cockpit and with 2 kids I agree it would be nice. Do you know if Baja ever made the 235's with Bolsters?
Just Curious,
Todd
01-08-2002, 10:52 AM
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Todd,
The reason I still have my Force is the cockpit space and general lines of the boat. The Force line still looks like an offshore boat without all those swoopy winshields and such. I have two kids bouncing around in back as well, you won't find any other models in this length with the cockpit room of Force. Never saw stand ups in one yet in any of the water I have run in including Lake Michigan have I felt the need for them.
Boat came stock with a 454 standard 330 which promptly froze and broke. Replaced with a crate engine of 330 and saw 57 to 59 mph with silenced tips. The tips probably cost me 1 to 2? Put the 502 standard from Runs New in with Gill silenced tips and saw a solid 65 to 67. Put Lightnings on a lost the silenced tips and ran 70 to 72. The nose cone cut me back to 70.
Tom S. (BudMan) has a Force and he had a 350 mag in his that would run 50. He put a stong 454 in his and has a solid 60 gps but with some tuning (prop, carb, bottom, oil choice, plugs etc)he should see 63 to 65.
The 88's had no integrated swim platform, 89's had integrated platform with top deck molded and bolted on portion to hull. Late 89 and 90 DVX were fully molded. The fridge moved around year to year with some under the hatch, others under the seat and most in the cuddy.
TimT
The reason I still have my Force is the cockpit space and general lines of the boat. The Force line still looks like an offshore boat without all those swoopy winshields and such. I have two kids bouncing around in back as well, you won't find any other models in this length with the cockpit room of Force. Never saw stand ups in one yet in any of the water I have run in including Lake Michigan have I felt the need for them.
Boat came stock with a 454 standard 330 which promptly froze and broke. Replaced with a crate engine of 330 and saw 57 to 59 mph with silenced tips. The tips probably cost me 1 to 2? Put the 502 standard from Runs New in with Gill silenced tips and saw a solid 65 to 67. Put Lightnings on a lost the silenced tips and ran 70 to 72. The nose cone cut me back to 70.
Tom S. (BudMan) has a Force and he had a 350 mag in his that would run 50. He put a stong 454 in his and has a solid 60 gps but with some tuning (prop, carb, bottom, oil choice, plugs etc)he should see 63 to 65.
The 88's had no integrated swim platform, 89's had integrated platform with top deck molded and bolted on portion to hull. Late 89 and 90 DVX were fully molded. The fridge moved around year to year with some under the hatch, others under the seat and most in the cuddy.
TimT
01-09-2002, 10:45 AM
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You guys are right on the money with your speed figures. I had a 1989 Force 235 with a 454/330HP. Great riding boat, however it was a bit bow heavy. I really liked the cockpit room, and the looks of the boat. I ran mid 50's on a fresh water lake, no engine mods except I added silent choice exhaust. I bit the bullet and bought a 1998 25' Outlaw. Great boat, but sometimes I miss having a $15k boat rather than this one. 
01-10-2002, 01:35 AM
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Thanks for the info cpqtim! Its good to find out that kind of information from someone that has done the research. Glad to have some ballpark speed figures!
Got any pictures of it online?
Got any pictures of it online?
01-11-2002, 05:43 PM
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The Force series is a bit bow heavy when you compare it to other Baja's such as the Outlaws. I have driven a couple Force boats (235 and 250). The 235 had tabs, the 250 did not. Both seemed to drive with the bow a bit planted no matter where I trimmed the drive to. I am comparing this to other boats in the same size range that I have driven (especially my 24 Outlaw/Sport).
As for the hook, my 24 Sport has the same hook. I have talked to Baja at length about removing it. They told me (as did a local boat builder) that removing it would cause more chine walk at WOT and make getting on plane a bit tougher. I have BIG tabs on my boat, and I use them a lot to trim the ride as my boat carries the bow very well.
If it were me, I'd try some other props before I changed the bottom of my boat. Such as a Bravo 1 or other bow lifting prop. Or perhaps having your Mirage tuned to carry the bow better might be an option. Cup, pitch, rake, etc... all have an effect on how a prop can carry the bow. Adding the nose cone to your drive (I used to have the same drive with the same cone (grenaded it bad!) also affected how your prop works at carrying the bow (effected your efficiency too I suspect due to your loss of speed). I now have a 99 Bravo (new style gear case) and it seems to me to handle exactly the same.
As for the hook, my 24 Sport has the same hook. I have talked to Baja at length about removing it. They told me (as did a local boat builder) that removing it would cause more chine walk at WOT and make getting on plane a bit tougher. I have BIG tabs on my boat, and I use them a lot to trim the ride as my boat carries the bow very well.
If it were me, I'd try some other props before I changed the bottom of my boat. Such as a Bravo 1 or other bow lifting prop. Or perhaps having your Mirage tuned to carry the bow better might be an option. Cup, pitch, rake, etc... all have an effect on how a prop can carry the bow. Adding the nose cone to your drive (I used to have the same drive with the same cone (grenaded it bad!) also affected how your prop works at carrying the bow (effected your efficiency too I suspect due to your loss of speed). I now have a 99 Bravo (new style gear case) and it seems to me to handle exactly the same.
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01-11-2002, 09:17 PM
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I've got an 89' 265 Force. I've heard some good and bad about removing hook.(mostly bad) I'm not totally sold on the idea. I'd definitely consider sharpening the transom edge.
01-12-2002, 09:26 PM
#10
Ive got an 87 265 Force. Love it!
A friend of mine bought a new 25 outlaw and I have tons more room than him. And he put more down than what I paid for my boat.
Mine has tabs, but Doesnt need them at cruising speeds. This is the first boat I have had with tabs so still getting the hang of playing with them.
I do have bolsters in mine. I dont know what length they started putting those in.
Good to know there are others with Forces out there that like them as much as I like mine.
A friend of mine bought a new 25 outlaw and I have tons more room than him. And he put more down than what I paid for my boat.
Mine has tabs, but Doesnt need them at cruising speeds. This is the first boat I have had with tabs so still getting the hang of playing with them.
I do have bolsters in mine. I dont know what length they started putting those in.
Good to know there are others with Forces out there that like them as much as I like mine.
