Need some advice PLEASE HELP
 

Well here is the deal i bought a 500 HP from a guy on here in the classifieds about a month ago. I get the motor and all the serial #s are ground of and painted plus looks like motor was in salt water. Was told the motor had 80 hrs and now i know this is total ****. I mean the casting # is gone ground off and painted black. I payed 8,000.00 for this motor and i am not sure what route to go with this.

So can some one please steer me in the right direction as this guy has a boat and a out drive listed on here for sale write now.

Real 500hp'S were blue not black, forged crank, forged pistons, carb motors had aluminum intakes with brass water jackets and a holley carb. and the one I had had the oil filter mount on the rear of the port head. First think you need to do is make sure of what you have or don't have.

If your transaction is well-documented, you could sue him. You're going to have to hire an expert to examin the engine, then come to court at conferences and the trial, plus you're going to have to pay a lawyer. And this is going to have to occur in the state you bought the engines in. Probably not worth it- you'll spend well over the 8 grand and even if you win, all you have is a judgment. you have to collect it- not easy, even when you're in the same town.

If you've spoken to him and he's told you to pound salt, you can feel free to post pics and details of the story and we can see about an OSO beat-down for him.

Nobody likes crooks around here. Or anywhere else. Maybe when confronted with the reality of everyone at his boating hangouts knowing he lied and f'ed someone on this deal, he may straighten up.

I could be wrong ,but I thought the blocks are black and the heads,water pump and intake manifold are blue.

Thanks for the quick replies everyone. The block is black The valve covers and the carb and intake all is blue along with the pulleys. I mean i am no expert but i am pretty sure this is a 500. I am just starting to think the motor is one of the ones out of a boat from hurricane Katrina or maybe Stolen. When i pulled the valve covers the lifters were crane and the motor has good compression all 8 cylinders fired and the thing has a ton of lift it seems. Like i said when it comes to motors i really have no clue. I am gonna go down to marina today and take a bunch of pictures and will post them on here.

Like i said before this guy has a boat for sale on here and a out drive i don't want anyone else to get in the situation i am in.

When i first seen the ad he had two motors and said one went south to like louisiana or Alabama and then i bought the other one. He also keeps saying the motor was made in 2001 and as far as i new they stopped making the carbed gen 6 in 1998? He said to run the serial # on the flame arrest er and there is not one.

I am so pissed about this write now here i spent all the money i had saved 8000.00 to do a engine upgrade and now feel like i bought one that i already need to gone through.

As far as the money i sent via bank wire transfer so is well documented and he also signed the bill of lading from the shipping of the motor.

On documentation, I meant that you have a purchase agreement. Bottom line, you have little legal recourse- at least anything that makes economic sense.

Did these motors come out of Texas?

No new jersey. The ad was run here so i would think that for as to what the guy said he was selling me they would have record of it all that i have is phone # and were he is located. And what has been told to me over the phone. What if the motor is stolen. Then i should have a leg to stand on shouldnt i?

getting screwed
 

I too got screwed by a member of oso,i bought a complete engine with dyno papers,build sheets etc.,took his word because he seemed really cool,put it in the boat and complete junk,already sold my stock motor so what was i to do?had to spend another $6000 and get it rebuilt,all he said was he doesnt understand how this happened and he has no money,WHATEVER man,this has made me not ever buy used stuff again.

Who...do us all a favor and get the name out there. Save someone else from getting screwed.

Unless you have a written agreement of exactly what you were buying, you've got nothing. Your word and evidence of a call placed to another phone number is nothing. And even if you did have absolute bulletproof evidence, all you can do is spend a bunch of your own money- only to get a likely-uncollectable judgment.

Have you spoken to this person about these issues?

Have you had the motor looked at by someone knowledgeable on HP marine engines?

By the way, there are no serial numbers on the block. Merc places a tag all the way in the back, at the bottom of the bellhousing flange- it's riveted on. At the least, there should be the original holes for the rivets.

Unfortunately if you were to sue, you can't prove the motor you are talking about is the one he sold you, he can just deny that is the engine. Caveat Emptor....Let the Buyer Beware. Good luck with everything

Yes i have spoken to him and he said he doesn't know why the numbers are off. and i am really not wanting to put his name out until i get to the bottom of all this i just don't think that would be the right thing to do. Here are some pics i took today. I can say this if you are looking at buying a sonic you should probably pm me before doing so if you wanna know his name.


http://i36.tinypic.com/11ae2ar.jpg

http://i34.tinypic.com/2q1uihs.jpg

http://i38.tinypic.com/21c8p6e.jpg

http://i37.tinypic.com/2qtzqkg.jpg

http://i38.tinypic.com/34ovexu.jpg

here are some more
IMG]http://i33.tinypic.com/b6f4ag.jpg[/IMG]

http://i33.tinypic.com/71o7dz.jpg

http://i38.tinypic.com/2v7whgw.jpg

http://i38.tinypic.com/4hpdg9.jpg

http://i35.tinypic.com/261hymt.jpg

It appears to have the right stuff. At the same time, it's pretty crusty. At a bare minimum, it would have to have the heads and pan pulled to see what's going on inside- it's either been stored a long time or improperly. The abandoned stud in the exhaust flange of the head is a nice "tell".

Why someone would go to the trouble to grind off a casting number is beyond me.

If you have a friend with the Highway Patrol or with Auto theft detail, they have an acid we used to bring the vin numbers to the top again.

:cool-smiley-027:

Even if it is stolen, I think you would have a hard time finding out. Who writes down their casting number and saves it in a safe place ?

I see your point about casting number. I just have no clue of what to do at this point that's why i am asking all of my fellow oso members and the boating community to help me out with advice. I do appreciate all the help so far. i mean should i just run the thing and and at the end of the season witch is about a month and then go thought the whole thing. I am just so frustrated about the whole thing i have been saving for 2 years to buy a motor and i get this. I guess you live and learn.

According to my Mercruiser manual there are serial numbers in a couple places on the engine. I found mine on the front of the motor kinda over by the water pump mount... stamped into the block... started with OLxxxxxx

That pic of the rusty valve stem has got me concerned. Basically you have two options:

1. Install it and run it and hope everything goes fine. Then re-do it this winter.
2. Take it to a known engine builder and have him look it over.

Just know that right now, assuming all internals are good, you have a simple rebuild that shouldnt break the bank. But if you take it out and something internal breaks, you could be spending ALOT more money to replace parts instead of just cleaning up and re-using the existing parts.

Thousands and thousands of blocks share the same casting number. They are not serialized.

As far as running it, right now it may be full of parts that could easily be made serviceable. If one of those valves that's gotten crusty sticks open once it gets hot, the only thing left that might be reusable is the valve covers... and there's no guarantees on that.

So what are we talking price wise to go through it. And does any body have part #s that i could possible need to check eBay and other places?

I've been where you are so I can feel for you, on taking the word of advertisers of parts and services for performance boats, and I can tell you first hand you're probably not going to get any satisfaction from the seller. I bought a boat advertised here that was not what it was claimed to be, and then turned right around and let another advertiser shaft me on the engine work, so I'm batting a thousand. From the outside, it looks like the right stuff, but you'll never know til you look inside. I would take Chris's advice and not ruin the good stuff you may have by running it. You can take it down and if it is a HP500 and you want to put it back the same way, you'll only be out pennies for gaskets, rings, bearings and a valve job compared to what it will cost if you run it and blow it up, plus it's out of the boat now. You'll really be p-o'd if you put it in the boat and have problems. There are reputable advertisers on this site, but several of us have gotten the other 2%.

So you say you've spoken to the seller- what did he have to say about the rust inside the valve covers and the crusty exhaust valves?

By the way, whatever caused that went down all the open exhaust valves and caused the same thing to the cylinder bores.

Exhaust port in the #5 cylinder looks a little wet, probably wouldn't hurt to pull the heads at the least and have a valve job done with new guides. You could check the pistons and cylinder walls while they are off.
My 500hp was a 98 model in my DCB Extreme and it was all blue.

I don't know if this makes a difference or not. The picture of the exhaust valve is the only one that is rusted. There is one on each side. The others are not rusty.

Can any one say what it's probably gonna cost me do everything i need to do i mean just a rough cost like the most it should cost to the least just and idea so i know whether to have someone start now or wait till i can save enough money back to get it done. This fuking project is already cost over 11000.00 now with out labour. I mean you got the 8000.00 motor 3000.00 hydraulic steering 500.00 sea strainer and 500.00 miscellaneous **** hoses fittings ect.

Maybe because it's 330 2 bolt short block?

I would pull the pan and see what parts are there. If it has the good interals, pull a couple caps to look @ the bearings, do a leak down test. If the bottom end is good, pull the heads and go through them. You will atleast have some confidence in running it for awhile. Good Luck.

All it takes is one bad valve...

As far as cost, it shouldn't take a competent marine high-performance engine shop more than a few hours to put it on a stand and pull the heads & pan. 90% of what they'll do is visual- the only thing they'd probably want to do is a quick plastigage on the mains & rods. At a bare minimum, it'll need a valve job ($200) and gaskets ($200). If it needs disassembly and a hone, with new rings- $500-$750. If the bearings are open too much, you might get away with a polish and new inserts. If you do that in conjunction with a hone/rings, maybe anonthe $350. If you need the block bored, the crank ground, new pistons and bearings, figure $2 grand to $2500, plus the top end/gasket cost. If you go that far, you'll want to put a better cam & hydraulic rollers in it ($1000)

Bubba can do it for less, Sterling is going to be more (waaaaay more). The key is a MARINE HP builder that knows what they're doing. You could be a NASCAR or NHRA world-champion engine builder- doesn't matter. If you don't understand the differences and needs of a marine engine, it won't last thru break-in.

I just wanted to let you all know that i appreciate all the help you guys have given me. Its nice to know that there are some people out there that are not out to fuk the next guy. THANKS

Does any one have any recommendations on who i should take the motor two i live central Illinois Peoria area and i have called all around and no one in my area is High performance marine mechanic. So really don't even know who to call o where to start. I was thinkng about calling Ateco engines in waukegan they are about 200 miles from me has any one used them or know anything about them.

I hear Ateco is good company to deal with

I have also used Keith Bremmelkamp (Water and Wheels) to rebuild my mercury 600SC's

Picked up the boat and went from his shop in Illinois to Florida and ran Miami to Key west with not even as much as a leaky hose
had over 200 hours on the rebuild with zero problems 815-363-9782

If you own basic tools, we could probably walk you thru basic disassembly and inspection. A local shop could refresh the heads if they just need cleaned up.

Do you own a torque wrench?

Wesco in MI is another guy to call.

Well since we all know that i got fuked i am gonna link every one to the sellers other boat he has for sale and out drive. Well as far as the motor goes i am gonna take it apart with help of a friend and have it done right. Since i am gonna be doing this what can i do to upgrade and get more power out of it. Like cam and what ever else if someone could give me part#s and what i would need to know also a good place to find the stuff i will need.

http://www.offshoreonlyclassifieds.c...o23818-en.html

http://www.offshoreonlyclassifieds.c...o25372-en.html

Shouldnt be more than 1500 dollars for bore, piston rings, bearings, gasket set, freshen the heads and magna flux every thing.

Once you get it torn down and see what's there, you'll be able to tell a lot more about what you will or won't need. Tear it down and report back and the guys on here in the know can help you with performance items based on what you really bought instead of what you think you bought. At first I didn't want to believe their diagnosis on my problems, since I had just spent a ton with a sloppy engine builder, but low and behold, after I went through my whole electrical system thinking that was my problem, when it was all said and done Chris and a couple others told me a valve was not closing from the beginning and they called it right. They'll steer you in the right direction.

I am going to be going through a similar rebuild over the winter after a very similar situation. I bought what was was supposed to be a recently rebuilt (75 hrs) HP500 on eBay and what I received was a Gen V 502 fitted with HP500 internals, intake, and 800 holley all painted a variation of Merc blue. The serial number was also ground off. I tore the engine down and determined I could make it through the summer which I did, but now it is coming back out. I am in KC and am working with a local engine builder that I have known for years and trust. We haven't talked in depth about the project, but small talk with him has me set on rebuilding/stroking to a 540. My goal is 650 n/a horsepower which he says is very achievable while maintaining reliability. My builder is a hot rod guy and it has been a couple years since he built a 500/540 marine motor so he is doing some research and will be getting back to me next week with component options, prices, etc. I will keep you posted. Not to get of the subject but what HYD steering did you go with? I have a 29 Outlaw single that the 540 is going back in and HYD steering is next on the list.
Thanks
John

Sorry for your luck with the motor. My motor is gonna be started on Friday or next week . I went with Mayfair Hardin marine.

Just read this thread. There's a shop in East Peoria that's pretty competent. They do not specialize in marine engines, but they are a legitimate Hi-Po shop. They maintain my friends blower motors in his Apache. I have used them in the past and they are honest. Let me know if you need contact info.

If there's only a month of boating left it would be best to chip in for gas and ride in a buddies boat....and in the mean time have a competent engine builder do a tear down and evaluate the components.
If it took 2 years to buy this engine an afternoon might be all it takes to destroy it.....
My 0.02.....
mike

Hey thanks guys yea i am done for the year havent boated since the last week of July. Already have boat in dry-stack for the year. Frequency are you talking about mullvaine in east Peoria.

Yes, that's the shop.

Why don't you post the original ad so we can all see if you got was described.