Cafe' vs Gun
 

Ok... all you guys out there that have done them both. What are the pro's and con's? I'm lookin for an early 90's boat. Originally wanted a Cafe' but there seems to be a lot more Guns out there. I'm doin the great lakes which is probably more boat that these lakes need but why would I want one over the other? The Cafe' seems to have a little more head room. Will the Guns handle that much better? What would you do?

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If you want a Cafe':
There is an AWSOME Cafe' for sale in the classifieds by Craig223. The boat is about as good as it gets!

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Thanks for the plug Bill, but mine is a Bullet! :D :D

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You might be suprised. I think it is a great size for the Great Lakes. You can be out enjoying the day thinking it's no big deal while others are getting their ass kicked.

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why early nineties? you can go mid late nineties on a gun for a good price and be happier and pay less monthly if your financing...i.e. you can go 15yr vs 10 yr. AND may get a cheaper rate for over 100k... so in the end you spend less for more boat :D

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I don't know which lake you're on but moving from a Gun to an Apache allowed me to go out on some days on Erie I'd have otherwise passed on. Big step from the 35 to the 38. Plus, you can get equivalent 38's for not a bunch more and they hold their value better. Downsides- if you rack store, not everyone can take a 38; same power between the 35 & 38 equals a 5 to 7 mph loss- maybe more, depending on the year- older Guns are somewhat heavier than the new ones. If you tow, you're probably going to need a bigger truck- an F250 ain't gonna' cut it for anything other than around the neighborhood.

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The longer the boat the better it will span the waves, it is unbelievable the difference in ride from my last 36 APACHE to my 41 APACHE, buy the 38 you won't be sorry. You can't have to big of boat on the great lakes, we did a trip[ a couple of years ago and one of the boats with us was a 50 NorTech vee bottom and she stuffed, I also have a customer with a 50 Hustler that stuffed going to Chicago, the lake can turn on you real fast, we left Grand Haven in glass seas,the wind picked up and we where in 10' sea by the time I got to the middle of the lake. If I was buying a 38 FAT BOY in ohio would be at the top of my list. Steve

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better yet get a lightly used 50 outerlimits :rolleyes:

i think by looking at cafes and older guns he has a budget in mind and t/s is way beyond that budget... wether he has the means or not

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I would not consider 38' more boat than the Great Lakes need rather I would think that is the perfect size for the Lakes. I have been through from 16' to 38' and will never own anything less than that. When the lake kicks up and it seemed to every weekend last year you won't be sorry.

Russ

Re: Cafe' vs Gun
 

Chewy, I was in the EXACT same spot you are in for over the last two years until buying our boat in March. I REALLY like Cafe's and have had alot of seat time in them, either behind the wheel or in the passenger seat. I've been in some CRAZY big water in a Cafe and was always impressed with how well it handles the big water. This is why when I started looking for a Cig I wanted a Cafe.

The market seemed to show that they were consistantly 15-20k cheaper than guns. In my mind that was a good thing since a Cafe is just a smaller Gun. i.e. same cockpit, same cabin, pretty much the same ride. I shopped hard for Cafes but started to look at Guns as well. It always seemed I was sacraficing something in order to justify a Gun purchase. Like the gun would have trs's or older motors, or not the right interior, or rougher shape, etc. etc.

When my last boat finally sold I called Lip-ship to see what Cafe's he had. He told me, in short, that I should buy a Gun and then made me a killer deal on our current boat.

I still love Cafes and still wouldn't mind having one but the short of it is. Take your time and find out what you want. Get to know the different styles of the Cafe/Guns of the 90's. There are suttle differences in both like stainless railing or the flat painted type. Upgraded cabin or the older style. head rest on the cockpit seats, trs's/bravos, older motors vs. newer motors etc. etc. etc.

I'm assuming you want to spend under 100k if you're looking in this range. There are alot more cafes that Guns in this range but everyonce in a while you'll see a nice gun pop up for a good price.

And one more thing. In regards to speeds. The cafe's are HEAVY!! Craig Barrie explained to me the 90's guns are actually a couple MPH faster than the 90's Cafes. Guns more efficient. I was suprised to hear this but know how much power it takes to get a Cafe up to high speeds.

I searched every corner of the market for a couple of years and learned alot along the way. If you want to pick my brain anytime I'd be more than happy to speak with you, just drop me a pm or e-mail.

And if you're looking for a great deal, call either Phil @ Lip-ship or Craig Barrie @ Martin. They both know a "little 'bit" about Cigs and can point you in the right direction w/out the Bull Sh!t. Good luck bro.

Tank

Here's a pic of what we ended up with.....

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I saw the gun listed in #11. Looks sweet! Seems real cheep for a 98. When did they put steps in the Guns? Seems like the 1994 and 1995's are where I'm at by the time I see what I like. Never really considered much newer. I really like the graphics on that 98. Guess I'll have to do some financing research. Thanks for all the info.

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What about salt water issues? What am I lookin for or looking to avoid with salt water boats? Seems like every one I see still looks immaculate. Some people have told me that there aren't many systems on a cig (opposed to a cruiser) so not as much to worry about. I do know that no matter how pretty the outside is, I can't see inside the engine.

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WOW! Tank that is a sharp Gun! Is that really a 95? Great lookin boat.

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95 mph in 8 footers in any boat is a very tall order...

The 8 footers I have been out make my 42 foot boat feel very small and even if I had the power to do it I doubt anything built by man or anyone aboard would last very long at 95.

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Yea..But.. Those arent "Bar" 8s !! :D

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iwasnt gonna say anything but since you brought it up......
























i call bullsh!t :rolleyes:

Re: Cafe' vs Gun
 

Salt eats aluminum heads very quickly and you can't tell until they're thru the jackets. It's also very tough on exhausts. Many times, outdrives look clean but when you have to take them apart, every fastener snaps off from the salt wicking into the threads. You'll see guys putting the old "innards" into new housings rather than trying to edm-out all those bolts and filling with inserts.

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great but this thread is about someone lookiing to get something nice as possible for 100k or less( im assuming)

not you latest and greatest 400k toy and how awsome it is
:rolleyes:



P.S. post count :rolleyes:

Re: Cafe' vs Gun
 

GLH you forgot the tag line.......






















unless its an APACHE!!!! :eek: :D

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Chewy good luck finding a Cig. Any choice will handle the big water. As for my typo sorry guys. They were NOWA 4-6's. Call Bill at Lake Cumberland Marine. He was driving. Maybe the 2 Garman's and the GPS spedo were off?? Who knows, who cares.

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Thank you for the information.

Your father has indeed an impressive ride, you can congratulate him on my behalf.

I personally rarely "jump down peoples throat" here, I razz a lot but everyone I do that to, I know or they know me. However when statements are too off kilter to even my little amount of knowledge I like to let it know.

As for your "anytime any day" remark. My father has been dead for 20 years so I'm a afraid I can't match your "any time any day" challenge with his boat.

It obviously would not be a big challenge for you fathers boat to beat mine because I would not want to break my boat in big water at those speeds. You know since I pay the repair bills on mine... It would be indeed be a shame also "if you broke it" as you mention. My sons always hate to tell me they broke something of mine and I hated to have to run with my tale between my legs when I broke something of my father's.

I hope your father enjoys his tremendous machine a lot, it deserves all the praises I am sure he gets.

Finally I attached a picture of me when I was 24 with all the stuff I "rented" (payments on all of them...) then. Believe me I was broke making payments on all that stuff but the stick I was swinging was all mine. I wish you good luck when you buy your first boat.

G.L.

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Ahmen , i second wut glh said :cool:

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:stupid:

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SINCE WE ARE POSTING PRIVATE MESSAGES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Here was my response. You guys are great!

"I was not trying to attack. I apologize. Myself I have paid "rent" on my toys as well and paid for them when they broke. Without my fathers help I have owned three SS Comaros, a Z-06 and two GTS' Vipers one of which Lake Cumberland took on trade for our 42x we just sold. I spent my young years working my butt off with three jobs and playing piano in jazz clubs from the age of 14 until I was 21. My name was on every title and bank loan. I have now sold all of those toys to own part of our Cigarette. We are not normally out in water that rough, but owning our first Cigarette, the boys of Cigarette asked that they take us out and show us what their boats can do. I appreciate anyone who can work hard and enjoy the fruits that come along with it. I believe in not abusing the machines even though they are purchased to be run rough. I have an Italian mother who is pretty tempered in rough water going too fast. As for the attachments, I did not see any, if you want to send a pic over, I always like seeing people’s toys that they work hard for. I am personally a Corvette fan myself. My father gave the collection up to do some serious boating b/c they cars have become hard to work on. I have had about three of them, but like my father, I like to change cars a lot. I appreciate you comments to the site. Once again, I am humbled by the knowledge of the people on this site and what they can teach a young kid. Most adults think the ones of us who are you have never lifted a finger in their life. I enjoy hearing that quite often, b/c that gives me the drive to say that I can do whatever the baby boomers did. I do agree with their comments because 98% of the people I have encountered that are my age did not work got everything handed to them. Fortunately I cam from a different family. Once again, the immaturity spoke though, and my apologies. I hope that as time goes on you can teach me a few things through the threads. I have read some of your posts and it looks like you have a lot of knowledge that you can teach us young punks or even some of the old-timers!!!

Best regards,

Vandy

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I don't know of many boats that are going to go 95 mph in TRUE 8' waves. In my experience most people add 2-3' when discussing wave heights. Real 8' waves will rock your world. In the 90 or 91(not sure which year, getting old I guess) Grand Haven race it was a real honest 6-8' on Lake Michigan. The race was black flagged halfway through. The fastest lap in a 41 Apache was 69.9 mph. The 47 Apaches did about 10 mph faster. These weren't the styrofoam boats that are built today. Offshore stories are alot like fishing stories.

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hey vandy, dont worry about it... you seem to be ok and yes, these guys will call you on what you say.. these are a great group of guys and i have met some great people through this site. they are are very knowledgeable, and most of them will go out of there way without ever meeting you. so, it was good to see you eat that humble pie with a glass of milk instead of being a punk. this board will bring you hours of enjoyment when your not boating and plenty of good times with the people you meet when your on the water...

there is only room for one resident punk and that me... Mr. Wonderful

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thanks stcz20, i feel a lot better. i will let you be the resident punk!!! ;) :D

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We took a Tiger w/6's and 1000's out of Channel Islands a couple of months ago. C.I. is known for it's BIG water and this day was no exception. 6-8's EASY! with confused white caps and wind chop. We got the boat on plane in front of the break wall, swung around the outside and after falling off the backsides of those cliffs and getting sprayed a couple of times, we decided to head back. In that kind of water it just isn't fun anymore. I boat for enjoyment, not for work!

Vandy, nice appology. I agree w/Stecs 100%. And I still wish my dad owned a Rough Rider! Or at least I could buy into it, though I wouldn't if my dad owned it!! :eek: :drink:

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Since GLG posted some picks I am too. This isn't being a punk, but these were mine by time a I was 21. One at a time though, not all at once. The Viper pics aren't on disk. But they were final editions. One was 280 and the other was an ACR which was 214. It went to someone in Ohio when we traded it in to Randy at Lake Cumberland. I think ppl are stuck on this 5-8 thing!! I meant 4-6 oh well, you all got a good laugh out of it ;)

thisistank I can only afford a small part and it gives Dad and I some bonding time since we work together every day!! PLUS I HAVE TO PAY FOR A FIANCE NOW!!! AHHHH!! :eek: :D

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if you had some mustangs you would have been a lot cooler, since they are chevys.... you just lost cool points... your back down to punk status...

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man, i can't win!!!! :( it's all gravy, i will earn them back hopefully!! :rolleyes: :D

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"PLUS I HAVE TO PAY FOR A FIANCE NOW!!!"

I think you will find boat maintenance to be quite a bit cheaper as I'm currently going through the same thing. I'm trying to pull enough pennies together for a membership so I can check out your 46. ;) Sounds sweet.

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:) All smiles, I needed that, as this is one heck of a rough Monday. I think everyone says the same thing. I get a congradulations and their regards at the same time. Oh well, she hates bikes, which sucks, but she loves boats, BIG PLUS!! :evilb:

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Great for you hope all is well and thank you for the good words.

As usual a storm in a glass of water... :D:D:D But I don't think the waves in the glass were 8 footers. ;)

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:)

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"and that me"??? any room in the grammar class? :eek: :D:D:D

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glh, i think your going to be my next victim at the nyc run... its your turn, bobby says to lean on your hard.. he said you can take it, im not so sure you can... i know you cant hold your liquor, but thats another story..

dont worry about my grammar, worry about those sh it box mercs holding together for ya... ill be waiting and ready...... dont make me hurt you....

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Tank...I'm just curious?

How can a hull with the same bottom (but 3' longer), and about 400 lbs. heavier be faster?

Just curious.

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Not the same bottom ... plus the notch on the Gun

G