Hey mercury you out there...
 

Its seems mercury is really putting the screws to the dealers and the dealers are are passing it on.. i have heard that if you buy a new boat you will only be getting a mercury product in there and no after market power... i for one and im sure im not alone, i will never buy a new boat if thats the case.. mercury has had the arm on the industry in the past and it seems they are trying to keep it to themselves.. this time its plain extortion... the new boat market will really go to sh it worse than it is now.. if all these companies get together and they might get something accomplished, but it will never happen and we the consumer will get the short end of the stick, as usual..

hey skip braver, if you think you running short of dealers now, just wait a little while... i will never buy a new cigarette with garbage from mercury... its bad enough im stuck with mercury for drives. ill never have mercury powering my ride...

Re: Hey mercury you out there...
 

I think it's pretty much been that way with most builders for a while hasn't it?

Re: Hey mercury you out there...
 

two things come to mind from this thread:

A) I got a check in the mail from a class action lawsuit in 1997 for Mercruiser being fined as a monopoly. I would think they'd want to be more careful.

B) No use yelling at Skip Braver about this kind of stuff. He already pissed alot of the dealers off when he forced them to buy an alloted amount of Cigs or loose their dealership rights. :rolleyes:

Re: Hey mercury you out there...
 

Cigarette is stronger right now then they have ever been...just read their press releases. :cool: :D

Maybe, just maybe, because CRT is now sponsoring this forum.....someone from their company will sign up here and comment on why all of the dealers are dropping them. :eek: :eek: Most by choice, but from what I have heard, at least one by their parents.

Re: Hey mercury you out there...
 

:eek: :drink:
Guess who? :D
It's not monopolized....
Customers can send their own power for install. Though the financials may steer you back to merc power....

Re: Hey mercury you out there...
 

cuda your right, for the most part yes.. the're still a few that will put different power in the boats, and honer your warranty.... you know who, i dont need to bring up names, but if i want a different package ill get one.. im not going to let mercury tell me who i can put in for power... with that move, they will kill the new boat market...

Re: Hey mercury you out there...
 

On our first Cig. we went with Sterling 1050's. We had problems from day one with the motors. Once those engines leave Sterling they are yours with no warranty. Plus they have less HP and don't run as well as the 1075's. Although I can complain that today our 1075's have taken a crap with 6 hours. Mercury tried to tell us that they didn't have any problems, but Murphy's Law does work :mad: Now, they are flying someone in to fix it. Same happened in 98 with those sh*tty XR drives and the 575's. Blew 12 seals and had to threaten legal action on Mercury to have them finally redesign a seal. They said only 15% of the XR drives would have seal problems, so they weren't going to notify the customers. How do they make up for two summers of your boat sitting at a Powerquest factory?? Nothing. We got to sit at the Smoke on the Water Run on the docks while everyone else ran. I would agree that it should be up to the buyer to choose their power

Re: Hey mercury you out there...
 

Does anyone want to go into business and be CRT exclusive???? Hmmmmm......... :rolleyes:

Re: Hey mercury you out there...
 

Such an angry person... Obviously JC's not fufilling other needs in your life. :D

Re: Hey mercury you out there...
 

Exactly. It seems all Mercury is saying is if you want full warranty you have to be running their drives with THEIR motors. I really don't blame them actually.

Chevy or Ford wouldn't honor a warranty if someone repowered their truck with something else.

Re: Hey mercury you out there...
 

That makes sense

Re: Hey mercury you out there...
 

Tell me more about your 1075 issues !!?!?!?!?!?

Re: Hey mercury you out there...
 

think about what you said... what truck comes with a chevy or a ford.. the chevys have Mitsubishi, the fords have internationals, the dodges and cummings.. if you go into medium duty trucks which have the least problems you can put any package together you want. you can get the motor you want with the rear you want with the trans you want... i like that, it should be this way when your spending close to a million for a new boat.. this is my point, i understand on a smaller level boat, not on one where you going for your balls....

Re: Hey mercury you out there...
 

I hope you are serious here... We ran it at Lake Cumberland twice. Everything was fine. Starboard engine started a little rough both times. We got it to Michigan and every time we started it it had the alarm go off and it said "BOOST DIAG CKT HI". I called Mercury. They said that was a critical failure. So we called the dealer and Mercury and the said get the boat off the water b/c that warning is serious. They said you can blow up a blower unit with that warning. They said when the warning comes on it shuts the engine to safety mode, but you could still destroy the engine if not followed.. I didn't think much of it, but it was serious enough to send someone here. Then there is a starter issue where it is killing the battery when you try and spin the motor. I have to charge it off the port battery. It's only though when the boat heats up?? Mercury said it was two separate incidents. We "my father and I" were on the phone with Mercury and Lake Cumberland all day and they said that this was the first problem in the field!??!?!? I know the 1075's are great. That's why we purchased them. Just a big of Murphy's Law

Re: Hey mercury you out there...
 

I don't think anyone can sum that up any better. You hit the nail right on the head. Now Cigarette won't let The Art of Design paint their boats. They are making it hard down the road to do business and build "your own boat". That's why we bought a Cigarette was because of the individualization of each boat to the customer. I see that going away quickly.

Re: Hey mercury you out there...
 

so you're saying I can go down to my Chevy or Ford dealer, and order a Z-71 or F-150 with a Porsche Twin Turbo engine and tranny? That would be any package I want right? AND they would honor the warranty?

Now, if you're saying you can order a Z-71 or F-150 with a corvette engine or Mustang motor then you are still using their equipment, which would be warrantied without question.

Re: Hey mercury you out there...
 

I think Merc motors are so expensive, because they are worth it. Can you imagine Billy Bob's Racin' Motors flying out someone to fix your engine? Some of that costs of the engine pays for these kind of things. Also, you can go anywhere in the world and find a Merc certified mechanic. Try that with a small builder.

Re: Hey mercury you out there...
 

I would agree, that's why we got rid of the Sterlings and went to Mercury's 1075. Big power. Dockside friendly, runs hard all day long. I mean, they can have problems too, nothing is perfect. Will Sterling send out someone?? HMmmm.. No, we had to fix it ourselves! :cool:

Re: Hey mercury you out there...
 

I am serious ..... I've got a set going into a new boat so I've got my ears open for any 1075 hiccups !!! :rolleyes:

Thanks for sharing your experience here. What are they doing to fix the problem ???

JM

Re: Hey mercury you out there...
 

Stay with the 1075's they are great. Just a part of boating. They are bringing a guy from Mercury Racing over to Grand Haven, Michigan. We are taking out boat down there from where we are and he's going to bring his computer that they have and try and find the problem. One cool thing, is that the computer can be hooked up to a cell phone and the diag. can go back to Mercury. The major issue is the blower sensor though. They don't know if it's faulty or if there is an air leak. They are going to take care of it ASAP they said after a few phone calls. They said the warning that we got is the first one that they had in the field. So, don't go changing you r mind there. We loved the Sterlings, but these 1075 Mers are great where the snobby boaters don't like engines idling at 2200rmp. It helps out! Plus surging motors docking a boat with Northing Lake Michigan winds at 15-25mph can be hard. I would say go with it!

Re: Hey mercury you out there...
 

Sounds like they are on it ..... let us know how it turns out .

JM

Re: Hey mercury you out there...
 

Wow...single point CRT....sure would be a pretty showroom...BUT the way CRT has it set up...the flooring cost would tie up lots of cash turning it into a lot of dead capitol. Ya gotta sell lotta used , f&I and snake oil to feed that flooring monster.

I think there is a little faster return on ALL that coin out there that would be sitting in a showroom.
Sounds like Skip is picking and choosing his retail partners very carefully controlling the brand his way

Re: Hey mercury you out there...
 

you know what im saying, within guidelines.. does it bother you that phil lip ship and richie zul might not be working together in the future, with cigarette that is.. you have zul engines in your gun, that im sure fall into the acceptable range and guidelines of mercury for warranty... all im saying is why cant we have options...

Re: Hey mercury you out there...
 

I would agree, it's not the best idea. I don't know how some dealers survive. It's hard to move boats esp. when Cig's pricing has gone up almost 28% in two years. Those boats are going to sit for sometime. Also, why would you throw out dealers who have been loyal for years??? Confuses the crap out of me:drool:

Re: Hey mercury you out there...
 

Yeah I know what you mean. It's still up to the customer on what they want to power the boat with. If I break a drive Mercury isn't going to warranty it, but it was my choice to have bigger engines than the 525's. Cigarette can't tell you what power you have to run before you buy a boat. They can tell you that some parts will not fall under the Mercury guidelines for warranty. I agree, it would be nice to have options. There are too many engine builders out there for Mercury to determine who actually can build or can't build an engine that's acceptable. Most can't.

Re: Hey mercury you out there...
 

I would guess that this would be Skips way of controlling the Brand to the next level and regrouping. Cig is truly in a niche market and a very fragil market. Market share is tightening up for Cig with the likes of OL / HUSTLER, DONZI , SKATER, FOUNTAIN, ELIMINATOR etc. and there is only so much room on the shelf for the likes. Controlling the premium brand is very important to niche companies. When he limits his dlr body to a few he can squeeze them his way his time clock. Plus it helps retain margin for the guys left selling his stuff- reducing cheap selling....kinda like controlling the market with a monopoly :eek:

Re: Hey mercury you out there...
 

:eek: :eek: :eek: Point well taken though. I never looked at it that way before!!

Re: Hey mercury you out there...
 

What Cig Dealers Are Still Remaining

Re: Hey mercury you out there...
 

In Skips regrouping, if he truely wants to stand out you may see Brand Image changes like facility changes to be more in Brand compliance (like Toyota, Jack in the Box, Micky D, Ford) at the stores he has left to sell the new stuff also remarketing the good used cigs as a certified quality product to keep the overall Brand even stronger and adding another income stream to the select (Skip certified) retailers out there. Lip ship is already kinda doing that but under his (LIpship) Brand Moniker. Let see if Ship moves it to the next level to keep his golden children heathly and sell more Cig auth parts and clothing...another income stream he can and will maximize if he is a visionary. Time will tell to see how sharp he is or is he just riding on Don Aronow hard work and his dlrs blood and sweat-Yes thats a challenge to Skip :D

Re: Hey mercury you out there...
 

:D

Re: Hey mercury you out there...
 

I liked it better when Cigarette only produced 5-7 boats a year and went out of business every other week.

Wait, no I didn't. I like it much better now.

Re: Hey mercury you out there...
 

WOW! I never thought of it that way either. It makes sense in a way but just sucks for some dealers that live off the used boat sales and cant push the new boats and afford to fill their floor with 5 new cigs.

But when I read your post I think of the situation Fountain is in right now. Some dealers have stopped taking them in on trades because the market is so flooded. They cant move the used boats. Skip is smart to not want to get into a situation like this...If in fact that is what he's doing.

And by the way, I think when you're talking dealers Phil is in a different plane all together. Lip-Ship Cigs ARE the cream of the crop flag ship Cigarettes. I highly doubt Cigarette would change that.

Re: Hey mercury you out there...
 

I would agree, I think Skip has done a hell of a job making things better. Him and Neil have done great work. I think though limiting people to not picking motors or painters is not right. Dean and The Art of Design did amazing work and they were taking boating and styling in a whole new direction. Now, Skip has ended his relationship with TAOD and dealers are falling left and right. I do though understand what was said about making dealers be a step above.

Re: Hey mercury you out there...
 

I think Skip stepped on his d!ck when it came to TAOD. I've spoken to Dean about it and the relationship did not end pleasantly :rolleyes: I just hope the new boats that are not TAOD painted still have the same caliber paint jobs.

Re: Hey mercury you out there...
 

I don't think they will. I was just at TAOD last week picking up our Cig with my father. I have heard that story too. Actually Cigarette sanded Deans signature off the side of our boat. We took it back to put have them put it back on. We are in Fort Wayne, Indiana so it was a short trip. It's a sad situation.

Re: Hey mercury you out there...
 

Sad indeed....That's funny you had the TAOD signature put back on! :D :D Deans a super cool guy, he deserves his props.

Re: Hey mercury you out there...
 

He does. His work that he did with Skip will become a classic. From the Maximus, to Rum Runner and Strip Poker. They hit a market together. It's unfortunate. I agree that he did step on his d!ck. Hopefully they can continue the new cutting edge designing that they have been doing. I don't think it will be the same b/c of Dean. He has an eye like no one else. Since you know him personally as well, you know exactly what I am saying! Have you ever been to his shop??? If not, you need to go, it's amazing:D

Re: Hey mercury you out there...
 

I'm not going to get involved with the whole TAOD deal, but I have heard the other side of the story and it's kinda chitty what happened. Would I have dropped them completely? No, but if I was sending that many of my companies boats over to TAOD, I would expect them to work with me on the issue that transpired.

Also, TAOD isn't the only painter that does top notch work. Just because he's your friend or you have his paint job, doesn't make him the best. Some of them are very very nice, but some tend to look the same. This is true with any painters style.

Re: Hey mercury you out there...
 

I just ordered a brand new 39 TG, CRT is painting the boat themselves and having invisions design the rendering from what I understand they have there own painters.

Re: Hey mercury you out there...
 

I have heard both side of the story and yes it is "very" chitty. I am in total agreance with you. I or I don't think anyone else wasn't taking any side. He does do great work. I think both of them will suffer from what happened. Skip and Dean both are great people. I have been on phone calls with both of them when we purchased our last boat. We now have a truck that we can't match up b/c we took the writing off.. Cigarette painted our last boat which they took from Dean's. Cig. does a great job in house. Our paint was flawless on our 42x. I do though think they "both sides" stepped on themselves.