TG vs CAFE - w/same power. Why are they faster
 

I have read that a Carbon T/G is 9500lbs and a Cafe is 9400lbs - Why are they faster? Not the stepped hull or staggerd, just an old Vee? Is it the length of the boat that lets it "sit up" in the water?

Hope someone can tell me -

Re: TG vs CAFE - w/same power. Why are they faster
 

Craig barrie explained it to me once. Basically the TG is a more efficient hull is what I got out of it.

Re: TG vs CAFE - w/same power. Why are they faster
 

Power to Weight Ratio.
Plain and simple.

A fiberglas Top Gun vs. a carbon Gun with the same HP will be considerably slower due to it's displacement. Your fiberglas Gun will need to shed some pounds to keep up with the carbon Gun.

In regards to "sitting up" in the water, mine will catch a breeze with the nose and bob higher in the water dockside than a fiberglas Gun. Hope that this helps you out.

Hugh

Re: TG vs CAFE - w/same power. Why are they faster
 

I think he's compairing Cafe to Top Gun not Carbon Top Gun to Fiberglass Top Gun. You would think the Cafe being lighter and smaller would be faster with same power but in fact the Top Gun is faster with the same power. And I've heard it's not just the Carbon Guns, it's all Guns.

Re: TG vs CAFE - w/same power. Why are they faster
 

OK Gotcha, Tank.

The comparison between the 2 hulls that I can see is that the Top gun has a little more rocker kick in the tail. I would have to speculate that this provides lift, hence elevating the hull higher in the water than the Cafe. given that all conditions and HP are equal, of course. Since Craig Barrie did build these boats in he early 90's, I would contact him as he is the expert.

Re: TG vs CAFE - w/same power. Why are they faster
 

Thanks - this might be a good thread for KRAMER - I think its displacement/rake - rocker kick It would be interesting to see a run from plan to 80. I would think the Cafe would get on plane faster then the TG would start to lift and pull away. I still like my Cafe for docking and I swear, it turns faster than a TG.

Re: TG vs CAFE - w/same power. Why are they faster
 

My carbon TG, jumps on plane extremly fast, never been a fan of the cafe

Re: TG vs CAFE - w/same power. Why are they faster
 

so what would be the diffrence between a 35 topgun or 38 topgun what hull does it have a cafe hull with a topgun deck or a cut down top gun hull

Re: TG vs CAFE - w/same power. Why are they faster
 

The 35' "Top Gun"/Playboy Edition was not the Cafe hull.

Re: TG vs CAFE - w/same power. Why are they faster
 

I'm suprised that the gun would be faster..

Re: TG vs CAFE - w/same power. Why are they faster
 

Scott -

I would think that the hulls are very similar to the point that it would be the "80 and over" mark that the TG would get up out of the water and would be more stable - BUT - that longer the boat, the more its effected by cross winds. I was hoping you would have more to say about this -- Who would know the real answer?

Thanks

Greg

Re: TG vs CAFE - w/same power. Why are they faster
 

I've got to tell ya. My cafe loves to get out of the water.( other then when its prefectly flat.) I've been suprised how fast my brothers topgun is with 415hps and bravos. His cabin seems to have a lot less fiberglass in it. Which would make it lighter. Maybe it would be faster??????

Re: TG vs CAFE - w/same power. Why are they faster
 

35 top gun had no step playboy had a step difrent boats

Re: TG vs CAFE - w/same power. Why are they faster
 

TopGun is a notched hull too......Cafe is not.......:cool:

Re: TG vs CAFE - w/same power. Why are they faster
 

Cash Bar,

Yes - The newer ones with stepped are faster, but I should say we are talking the non-stepped vs. the same HP - Maybe Kramer should race his brothers, but I think Kramer has more HP - in his boat. I would think the most common power for the Cafe and TG was HAWK back in the day. Yes the stepped hull will beat a cafe with the same power

Re: TG vs CAFE - w/same power. Why are they faster
 

Cash Bar is referring to the notch at the transom.

Re: TG vs CAFE - w/same power. Why are they faster
 

I would say the top gun my self just because of th eover all lay out of the hull

Re: TG vs CAFE - w/same power. Why are they faster
 

Tony, do you have pics of your boat?

Re: TG vs CAFE - w/same power. Why are they faster
 

You think that little notch in the rear makes that much speed?

Re: TG vs CAFE - w/same power. Why are they faster
 

Just think what a little hook would do............................
Jr.

Re: TG vs CAFE - w/same power. Why are they faster
 

I wouldn't call it "that much speed". Under ideal conditions, if both boats were notched, they would still only be a few mph apart. The notched transom makes that up, plus a few, over the Cafe'.

I think........:rolleyes:

Re: TG vs CAFE - w/same power. Why are they faster
 

Thanks for the clarification homey....

Re: TG vs CAFE - w/same power. Why are they faster
 

There is also the length to beam ratio to consider. Although I have no idea what that is between the two boats, whenever you have a narrower beam in relation to length, the hull is more efficient and faster. Normally this is mitigated by the greater weight so it isn't as noticieable. It can make a huge difference as the boat gets larger. The old Midnight Lace boats were narrower than similar boats at the time and it made them faster and more fuel efficient than a similar size/weight boat. Still love those boats...

Re: TG vs CAFE - w/same power. Why are they faster
 

Big difference .... almost like adding a standoff box.

G

p.s. A non-notched Top Gun is not faster than a Cafe Racer

Re: TG vs CAFE - w/same power. Why are they faster
 

Holy shiit G, we pulled you out of retirement to speak? :eek: :D

Re: TG vs CAFE - w/same power. Why are they faster
 

His little two seater must be in the shop....
What's up G..

Tom

Re: TG vs CAFE - w/same power. Why are they faster
 

What Up fellas ? I've made a few post over the past few weeks. After watching the SCOPE DVD and some of those FPC videos, I was drawn back .... and no, the two-seater is running just fine.

When I hit the BIG one, I'll be back

:drink:

G

Re: TG vs CAFE - w/same power. Why are they faster
 

G -

I thought so, the Cafe is just as fast with the same power per the "
"G"man- Any comments TS owners? I would rather be running a TG over 80MPH just to keep the noise from "airing out" with that extra weight up front, but the CAFE will turn faster and harder on a closed racing course - would anyone agree? Heck, we need some more Cigarettes out there RACING TODAY!

Re: TG vs CAFE - w/same power. Why are they faster
 

INSPtech - The beams are the same TG - Cafe 8 ft. the extension box will keep the noise down, but only come in after higher speeds -

So then would a Cafe be just as fast over 80 with an extension box? as a TG without

Re: TG vs CAFE - w/same power. Why are they faster
 

I agree i would like the Top gun over the Racer in the high speed but im not sure about the turning aspect never really go into that

Re: TG vs CAFE - w/same power. Why are they faster
 

these are the only pics i have on this computer

Re: TG vs CAFE - w/same power. Why are they faster
 

I'm pretty sure they made a few notched Cafes.....Now that'll throw a monkey wrench into your theories huh!?:drink:

Re: TG vs CAFE - w/same power. Why are they faster
 

never saw a nothced cafe i ran a 96 bulldogs with 420b&ms coolers and imco bravos runs in the 90+

Re: TG vs CAFE - w/same power. Why are they faster
 

Are you sure about that? I've never seen or heard of one, but, knowing you have the inside track to CB, so if you say so, it must be so ;)

G

Re: TG vs CAFE - w/same power. Why are they faster
 

That's my point. If the longer boat has the same beam then the ratio is better on the longer boat for both speed and wave piercing. If you narrowed out the cafe and left the weight the same, the Cafe would likely be faster-all other things equal. Wider= slower.

Re: TG vs CAFE - w/same power. Why are they faster
 

No, I'm not 100% sure. I just remember someone (I think Craig) told me that once. I'll ask him next time I talk to him.

G, it's good to see you pop up more recently around these parts. You going to make it to Havasu?

Re: TG vs CAFE - w/same power. Why are they faster
 

that thing is AWESOME!! What power? How many non stepped 35's did they make?

Re: TG vs CAFE - w/same power. Why are they faster
 

Yes, they made a few notched Cafe's.

Re: TG vs CAFE - w/same power. Why are they faster
 

Sweet boat. The 35 Top Gun is the same hull as the Cafe with a different interior I thought. Yes?

Re: TG vs CAFE - w/same power. Why are they faster
 

Others I had.