Buying is hard
02-24-2009, 11:32 AM
#21
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Location: Channel Islands, So. Cal.
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Thanks for all the input. These days who knows what happens tomorrow right?
I have the internal debate daily. Of the 35ts's that I can find right now, i've got as much info as I can find. Ones with a broker who bought it from repo from another broker/dealer deal that was kinda sketchy. It sat for almost 3 years now. Who knows whats happened to it since. Yes a survey is obvious, but I'm so much more comfortable knowing history. Good or bad, history is important to me. I like the look of the boat for sure. But I baby all my things and take care of them. That one screams "beat the $hit out of" to me. ANd i'm not saying it is, but it just seems so to me. Granted the price reflects it, and what I'd actually be willing to pay reflects that as well.
The day the boat came back on the market I made an offer. Probalby one that some here would consider offensive but to me it was real. The boat has weak history, a couple of problems and other than looking good, and bearing the Cig name, doesn't really have much value to me. It wasn't meant to be offensive but at the time he wouldn't move from 140K. Now its at 99K and I'm sure will sell less than that. Another one, has FI. That again creates "value" problems for me atleast. To me FI on a boat is ok, but agian, who knows what's happened to it during that time? Few people do motor work to run 55mph. So for me personally, blowers lowers the value of the boat for me.
Another one, which may work is not really how I'd like it to be as far as color, again value. So I sit and wait and hope another one like the one from Channel Is. shows up, one that oozes confidence and not a "Low mileage, runs great" mood.
And as far as the 38. Thats my internal debate almost daily. I know boats. Been on them my whole life. I know the minute you own a 30 you want a 35 and then a 40 etc. I just dont' want to move into something that is so varied. Steps, no steps, 160K, 300K. Huge differences, and I'm not so sure where I'd want to put my money. I love the tg look. Its a beautiful timeless boat. The 35 seems to fit my needs. I'm patient and waiting. I'm sure one will come that all the pieces fall into place.
My assumption is that in reality a 35 with stock power that has a good history will probably cost me around 100K. Not meant to be offensive and I may be off a little but boats don't seem to be moving too fast these days. If I have to pay a little more to make myself feel comfortable I'm prepared to do so. Lets face it, in the end, i'm the one, who needs to sleep well at night. buying one for 80 grand that blows motors, and has issues all season that put more time on the mechanics timecard than on the hourmeters are not what i'm looking for. As we know, even when you have an open line of credit with your mechanic, time is the variable you can't control. And it always seems that the most beautiful weekends are the one when abused parts seem to let go. Thats just my thing but I' don't mind paying for something that I feel is right. I'm not nickle and diming to save a buck as much as I"m tyring to get a decent price on something that I feel I can bring fam and friends down the dock with our coolers and sunglasses turn the key and go. Not say "I bought my boat 40k below market everyone but we can't use it this weekend cause its being fixed." No amount of money can replace the joy of internal combustion, seawater, and sun all in harmony on a saturday.
But who knows, tomorrow is another day. Maybe I'll wake up and want a 38.
I have the internal debate daily. Of the 35ts's that I can find right now, i've got as much info as I can find. Ones with a broker who bought it from repo from another broker/dealer deal that was kinda sketchy. It sat for almost 3 years now. Who knows whats happened to it since. Yes a survey is obvious, but I'm so much more comfortable knowing history. Good or bad, history is important to me. I like the look of the boat for sure. But I baby all my things and take care of them. That one screams "beat the $hit out of" to me. ANd i'm not saying it is, but it just seems so to me. Granted the price reflects it, and what I'd actually be willing to pay reflects that as well.
The day the boat came back on the market I made an offer. Probalby one that some here would consider offensive but to me it was real. The boat has weak history, a couple of problems and other than looking good, and bearing the Cig name, doesn't really have much value to me. It wasn't meant to be offensive but at the time he wouldn't move from 140K. Now its at 99K and I'm sure will sell less than that. Another one, has FI. That again creates "value" problems for me atleast. To me FI on a boat is ok, but agian, who knows what's happened to it during that time? Few people do motor work to run 55mph. So for me personally, blowers lowers the value of the boat for me.
Another one, which may work is not really how I'd like it to be as far as color, again value. So I sit and wait and hope another one like the one from Channel Is. shows up, one that oozes confidence and not a "Low mileage, runs great" mood.
And as far as the 38. Thats my internal debate almost daily. I know boats. Been on them my whole life. I know the minute you own a 30 you want a 35 and then a 40 etc. I just dont' want to move into something that is so varied. Steps, no steps, 160K, 300K. Huge differences, and I'm not so sure where I'd want to put my money. I love the tg look. Its a beautiful timeless boat. The 35 seems to fit my needs. I'm patient and waiting. I'm sure one will come that all the pieces fall into place.
My assumption is that in reality a 35 with stock power that has a good history will probably cost me around 100K. Not meant to be offensive and I may be off a little but boats don't seem to be moving too fast these days. If I have to pay a little more to make myself feel comfortable I'm prepared to do so. Lets face it, in the end, i'm the one, who needs to sleep well at night. buying one for 80 grand that blows motors, and has issues all season that put more time on the mechanics timecard than on the hourmeters are not what i'm looking for. As we know, even when you have an open line of credit with your mechanic, time is the variable you can't control. And it always seems that the most beautiful weekends are the one when abused parts seem to let go. Thats just my thing but I' don't mind paying for something that I feel is right. I'm not nickle and diming to save a buck as much as I"m tyring to get a decent price on something that I feel I can bring fam and friends down the dock with our coolers and sunglasses turn the key and go. Not say "I bought my boat 40k below market everyone but we can't use it this weekend cause its being fixed." No amount of money can replace the joy of internal combustion, seawater, and sun all in harmony on a saturday.
But who knows, tomorrow is another day. Maybe I'll wake up and want a 38.
Great post. I don't think anything you said is out of line or offensive at all. I think 99% of the people reading this would agree with your reasoning.
In regards to a 38. Sounds like you're talking yourself out of one because there's so many to choose from. I would think that would be a blessing not a curse. With the 35 Playboys TS there were only 10 or so built. Waiting for the right one to pop up could never happen. Guns are a bit more but worth it.
The Playboy you refered to from Channel Islands was a friend of mines. When he sold it he felt it was at a cheap price. But in this market now, it most likely would be over priced. but the guy that bought it got a truely turn key boat that was maintained with an open check book and babied. The extra money spent will be worth it in the long run on that boat.
When you talk about 38 VS 35's, I could def. tell the difference between a 35 and a 38 in my opinion. If you can get out on a 38 and a 35 it would be worth it. And it may be worth the trouble to start looking at 38's and do some homework. The good thing is you can ask around here if anyone knows a boat and you'll get the honest answer one way or another.
Also, there's a lot of Gladiators on the market for unreal prices! The less cabin is a draw back but GAWD you get a lot of boat for a little money! And the lines on the Glads are just pure sexy classic.
Keep up the hunt. You'll find the ou right boat. By the way, where are you from?
Last edited by thisistank; 02-24-2009 at 11:39 AM.
02-24-2009, 06:44 PM
#22
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Thanks for the info. I guess the reason that i'm so squared to a 35 is cause I was looking and researching them for about a year. The chan.is one was fantastic. I tried to get out there to see it in person but I never got a chance. I somewhat of a nomad lately. Was on east cost then west coast now back to the fantastic winters of the northeast. I spoke with the owner or whoever was listed on the ad for that boat about it at length and realized it was a good boat from the conversation. It was one of those timing issues. I spoke with the previous broker/dealer I think was passport over a year ago when I was in FL about that one and at the time they told me it was sold even though I was looking at it on ebay while on the phone with them (shady). Then poof its gone. Then whala its back. I forsee too many bloody knuckled sweaty saturdays upside down with that boat that no amount of beer will overcome. I did find myself looking in the classifieds for take outs and thought about that scenario as well but even that usually leads to a seasons worth of debugging.
And although I'm not 100% I belive I saw the 35 with blowers at Ocean perf a while back but I have some more research to do to make sure. The one there had silver drives I think. They said they did the set up in house.
I will find someone with a 38 and take a ride since I'll probably be still looking this spring. I'm about an hour or so from Long Island and there's tons of good hardware there. I'm sure if I'm still only using water wings when the weather warms up I'll take a drive down there and find someone who's interested in gas money for a cruise. I"m gonna start looking into 38's I suppose. there's 50+ g's I wasn't planning on spending
So I guess I'll start with the basics. From what I understand there's basically a few different type of 38's
1. older straight hulled. Did all of them have full cabin?
2 newer t/s. which could have either full or semi cabin?
3. very new which is a 38 or a 39? but the 39 is a staggered set up? Cabin?
The difference in the two cabin set ups is that the semi doesnt' have a v berth and instead a bulkhead halfway up and raw hull foward of that?
This pretty much the basics thus far without getting yelled at to "read posts" or "do a search"??
They sure are pretty and yes having a ton on the market is a good thing, they are just so varried.
I gotta put together on paper what I think I'd want and then start searching.
And although I'm not 100% I belive I saw the 35 with blowers at Ocean perf a while back but I have some more research to do to make sure. The one there had silver drives I think. They said they did the set up in house.
I will find someone with a 38 and take a ride since I'll probably be still looking this spring. I'm about an hour or so from Long Island and there's tons of good hardware there. I'm sure if I'm still only using water wings when the weather warms up I'll take a drive down there and find someone who's interested in gas money for a cruise. I"m gonna start looking into 38's I suppose. there's 50+ g's I wasn't planning on spending
So I guess I'll start with the basics. From what I understand there's basically a few different type of 38's
1. older straight hulled. Did all of them have full cabin?
2 newer t/s. which could have either full or semi cabin?
3. very new which is a 38 or a 39? but the 39 is a staggered set up? Cabin?
The difference in the two cabin set ups is that the semi doesnt' have a v berth and instead a bulkhead halfway up and raw hull foward of that?
This pretty much the basics thus far without getting yelled at to "read posts" or "do a search"??
They sure are pretty and yes having a ton on the market is a good thing, they are just so varried.
I gotta put together on paper what I think I'd want and then start searching.
02-24-2009, 07:51 PM
#23
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For Discussion purposes - all of the Flat Bottom Guns had Full cabins with enclosed heads, V-berth with bed, cooler, sink, and drink mixing table.
The T/S boats have a more spartan cabin. Yes, some have a full cabin, some have an extended cabin, and some have a half cabin - basic layout is couches on both sides, cooler in some, and some have pump out heads in the middle of the cabin between the couches. No enclosed head.
Most people (from a budget standpoint) are either shopping for a T/S or are NOT shopping for a T/S. Flat bottom Cigs take big power to go relatively fast. Have you decided what you want out of the boat? If reliable decent speed is what is important you better go with a T/S gun.
The only reason to go with a flat bottom is that you either want the enclosed head/full cabin layout for overnighting - OR your budget dictates that you are out of T/S range.
OR you believe all the rhetoric lately that T/S boats are unsafe in turns......
The T/S boats have a more spartan cabin. Yes, some have a full cabin, some have an extended cabin, and some have a half cabin - basic layout is couches on both sides, cooler in some, and some have pump out heads in the middle of the cabin between the couches. No enclosed head.
Most people (from a budget standpoint) are either shopping for a T/S or are NOT shopping for a T/S. Flat bottom Cigs take big power to go relatively fast. Have you decided what you want out of the boat? If reliable decent speed is what is important you better go with a T/S gun.
The only reason to go with a flat bottom is that you either want the enclosed head/full cabin layout for overnighting - OR your budget dictates that you are out of T/S range.
OR you believe all the rhetoric lately that T/S boats are unsafe in turns......
02-25-2009, 01:09 AM
#24
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02-25-2009, 08:02 AM
#25
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I'll answer your post in two parts.
First; why all the heated debate when the topic of price is brought up on the forums?
In my experience and opinion it's not that people get offended if a TRUE BUYER makes an offer to the seller. I think people get offended and the term "bottom feeder" comes out when people come on here and start bashing a price or trying to beat down a price on a boat they really aren't even interested in or can't afford. Some do it to make themselves feel better that boat prices may be coming down to a price range they can afford and others do it just to make conversation. I don't personally think it's good business to discuss price on an open forum.
Which brings me to the next point.
Why don't people talk about price on here?
I think the main thing is if you publicly display your purchase price it may screw you in the end. I think 99% of the people that buy, expect to sell at some point. What if you got a really good deal on the boat and figure you can sell it for the same price you bought it or maybe even a little more (though those days have sense past I think)? If you talk about what you paid at any point on here, when you go to sell it some tard will bring up the fact that you paid such and such for it and you shouldn't be selling it for that price, etc. etc. etc.
I think when you get around people in a face to face setting (bar, boating, etc), you'll hear what people paid. But advertising it online is not smart in my opinion.
Now, congrats at being one of the few people in this country that can still afford to buy the best offshore boat built in the world! Hope to see you around.
Tank
First; why all the heated debate when the topic of price is brought up on the forums?
In my experience and opinion it's not that people get offended if a TRUE BUYER makes an offer to the seller. I think people get offended and the term "bottom feeder" comes out when people come on here and start bashing a price or trying to beat down a price on a boat they really aren't even interested in or can't afford. Some do it to make themselves feel better that boat prices may be coming down to a price range they can afford and others do it just to make conversation. I don't personally think it's good business to discuss price on an open forum.
Which brings me to the next point.
Why don't people talk about price on here?
I think the main thing is if you publicly display your purchase price it may screw you in the end. I think 99% of the people that buy, expect to sell at some point. What if you got a really good deal on the boat and figure you can sell it for the same price you bought it or maybe even a little more (though those days have sense past I think)? If you talk about what you paid at any point on here, when you go to sell it some tard will bring up the fact that you paid such and such for it and you shouldn't be selling it for that price, etc. etc. etc.
I think when you get around people in a face to face setting (bar, boating, etc), you'll hear what people paid. But advertising it online is not smart in my opinion.
Now, congrats at being one of the few people in this country that can still afford to buy the best offshore boat built in the world!
Hope to see you around.Tank
I paid 45k for my Cafe Racer in 2002. I got a SMOKING deal!! NOT!!!
Had a survey done that came back clean and brought the boat home.
Put the boat in the water, left the marina and promptly blew an engine. Had both engines removed to be rebuilt...turns out they were rusted, pitted resleeved junk...and needed to be replaced.
YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR!!!!
I now have a Cafe Racer that I've put over 70k into AFTER the purchase price...has BRAND NEW 496HOs with Bravo XR drives, Marine Machine steering and is EXCEPTIONALLY clean.
So do i get offended when someone offers me 30k SIGHT UNSEEN when I'm asking 65k? HELL YES!!! I'll keep the boat and burn it to the ground before I sell it for 30k....and no...I DON'T have insurance.
Oh yeah...and in case no one heard me the last time....
YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR!!!!
02-25-2009, 09:08 AM
#26
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Guys, you boys are worrying your self to death about the value of a boat, they are just a toy, If you are going to boat for fun, you can't worry if you will lose money or not, I promise you will, one way or the other. If you have to worry about nickles and dimes this will never be as much fun as it should be. It's like the old saying about the price of gas if you have to worry about it you can't afford it. I'm not trying to be a smart ass about this, but boating should be fun for you and the family,not wondering if your boat is depreciating or not because believe me it is.
02-25-2009, 09:48 AM
#27
You should buy what you like. When thinking about a performance boat you should consider what updates you want and what they will cost in the long run. Is it cheaper to buy a boat that is updated and the way you like it, or buy one that you will have to update and dump lots of money into. Just start adding up specialty parts and you will be at the price of an updated boat.
Major costs to Update
Drives (that aren't based on old technology and hard to get parts for)
:Cockpit Interior/Cabin Interior
:Gauges/Controls
:Covers
:Billet Goods and Powder Coatings
:Props
:Exhaust
:Sea Strainers, Resivoirs, Batteries, Stereo
:Braided Lines, Coolers, Cables, Indicators
Just things to think about
Major costs to Update
Drives (that aren't based on old technology and hard to get parts for)
:Cockpit Interior/Cabin Interior
:Gauges/Controls
:Covers
:Billet Goods and Powder Coatings
:Props
:Exhaust
:Sea Strainers, Resivoirs, Batteries, Stereo
:Braided Lines, Coolers, Cables, Indicators
Just things to think about
02-25-2009, 10:03 AM
#28
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Cw, take your time and find the one that you think suits you the best.Once you find it,make sure you go through it as much as you think you need to to make you feel comfortable about the boat, and then, ask a bunch of questions that you are thinking about and I'm sure you will be happy in the long run.Most of the guys that have owned or own Cig's at the moment are very knowledgeable and have a good idea of what they have.In todays market you will have a wide aray of different Cigs to choose from, but one thing is going to be constant..A CIG is A CIG and you are definitely going to buy into a top notch boat and brand with many years of product knowledge..CIG #1...
02-25-2009, 11:27 AM
#29
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P.S. IF you are really going to buy a boat, and especially if this is your first one, relax enjoy, because if the truth be known' it's a lot more fun to look to dream to want and to plan. It's like owning a Mercedes, after the first month it's just something to drive to the store to get a loaf of bread.
02-25-2009, 11:32 AM
#30
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P.S. IF you are really going to buy a boat, and especially if this is your first one, relax enjoy, because if the truth be known' it's a lot more fun to look to dream to want and to plan. It's like owning a Mercedes, after the first month it's just something to drive to the store to get a loaf of bread.
