trs vs bravo
 

in a 38 topgun does a trs make for a better ride in rough water because the engines are more forward in the boats than a bravo have 625hp per motor is one way better than the other these are my two options?

You might chew up Bravo's if you rip on it much.

I have bravos behind about 575-600HP in my Cafe, but I treat them like they are made of glass.

trs's also shift nice & smooth, no clunk when going in gear like in a bravo. i think the trs was designed for more power than a bravo so may hold up better. i would love to slap on some konrad's on mine but not in the cards yet.

TRS Good for 550 - 600 HP. Konrad is an option. Can pick up spare TRS Drives sometimes on the cheap. Only draw back is the replacement gears used today are made over seas and not nearly as strong as the original OEM merc part. Better Shifiting then Bravo Style Drive, Also makes the ride better on the Top Gun with the weight of the drive plus tranny.

Straight Bottom Guns with 500 HP + tend to be Bravo eaters. Depends on the driver.


I ran TRS on 675HP Mistress (Similar Bottom) for 90 Hours without a problem. At 90 hours I think I had some case flex and the pinion gear went. I then converted to Konrads, and that was a great option. I then sold the boat.

I now have 3a's on the Top Gun

I have a better idea...1995 top gun with warmed 525SC's on 3A's. Come and get it!

But to answer your question, the CG on top guns were designed for a transmission and the motors to be further forward. When Cig started pitting bravo's in they did not change the CG meaning the bravo boats have a tendancy to porpoise. An the weight of a gun = bravo eater of you're not careful.

TRS was a great drive but people are scared off becausethey haven't been made in 10 years and there's a fear of replacement parts being scarce, though I haven't seen that to be fact.

Good luck on a purchase.

I don't have a lot of personal experience with Guns, but I really like my TRS. Has been bulletproof for me with 550-600 HP. Not to mention how smooth they shift.

thanks for your comments guys that is what i thought going to go get me one on the weekend

If you don't want outdrive problems go with the TRS.
I have had many many TRS boats including a 38 Top Gun & a few Cafes & Mistresses & have NEVER EVER had a drive problem.
I had 1 Bravo 38 Cig T/S boat & had nothing but drive problems for 3 years. Granted I am hard on a boat, but everyone who owned my F-2 Cig had the same story.

In my opinion Bravos belong on houseboats, not on heavy high performance boats.
Oh & my F-2 Cigarette only weighed about 8,500 lbs.

I totaly agree with LS. The only thing I dislike about TRS's on a Straighbottom is the minimal amount of room in the engine compartment vs. the bravo counterparts...
Jr.

I dont understand, if TRS drives are so good, why does everybody want Bravo boats? As far as a nice riding boat goes, I agree with the weight transfer/porpus theory. Makes perfect sense. But I would rather deal with the " bang" into gear and be on the faster Cigarette boat! Jus my 2 cents.

They stopped making TRS drives because they were expensive to produce. You need a LH and RH and Transmissions. Boaters wanted a cheaper version. The Bravo drive is initially cheaper, until you throw horsepower at it. Then it gets expensive. step hulls are more efficient, lighter and usually have stock 525hp. Question was cigarette straight bottom boats, which drive. I would go SSM, TRS then Bravo. Just my 2 cents. Everyone has an opinion.

If you buy a trs boat at the right price, the Konrad Option is great. Sell the TRS Equipment and buy a direct bolt on with a warranty.

Depends on what you want to do and how deep your wallet is.

One of the nice things about Bravos (in my opinion) is that if you blow one up you can bolt another one on in 15 minutes and go boating again....

When I have the money I am going to "stock" a spare one so that when the inevitable happens I am ready to go.

seaforguy i see your point for replacing bravos are quick and easy but if i have a choice to buy the boat why would i buy something that i will be waiting for the day for it to break and have spare parts to fix it i want to buy it right the first time if that is possiable and have no problems

Simple answer;

TRS drives are obsolete and parts are going to get harder to find as time goes on.

Although the theory of this is true, the fact is you can still easily get TRS parts. People just get nervious.

fair enough but as time goes everything will go through that phase including bravos

[QUOTE=seafordguy;3131777]Bravos (in my opinion) is that if you blow one up [/QUOTE

Not if.......when.... :party-smiley-004:....:lolhit:

Yep

Not saying Bravos are the right answer - just that it is a point to consider. As far as "buying it right" - TONS of Cigs have bravos - they wouldn't have switched and stuck with Bravos as long as they have if they didn't perform. To this day you can buy a Bravo CIG.

I would think the resale on the Bravo's is arguably better.

P.S. - Bravo, TRS, 3A, NXT, #6 - doesn't matter what's out back problems are inevitable HAHA.....

P.S. - Bravo, TRS, 3A, NXT, #6 - doesn't matter what's out back problems are inevitable HAHA.....

Well Said !!!!!!!

My Konrads showed up! :evilb: Prettiest part of the boat so far, that won't be on it for quite some time!

Anyways, if you have the coin, Konrads are great because you can bolt them on (no transom changes), prop selection is still there (and affordable), it's a great company, and they can handle alot of abuse.

I asked a friend with a Cafe why he went to Bravo instead of Konrad. His opinion was that Konrads had just come out, he wasn't too sure of the drive or the company, bravos were more efficient, and he could get away from all the TRS stuff (including transmissions) so replacement parts and rebuilds were more realistic.

I went with Konrad because:
1.) Positive feedback from the boating community (you guys!)
2.) No transom modification, engine placement, x dimension mods
3.) Power handling is greater than a Bravo, peace of mind boating. I want to go boating everytime out, not plan on fixing Bravos and spending more money in the long run.

I had the oppportunity to go #3s but it was just too much fooling around to get them on the boat. I have a target date for this project, I would have never reached it if I went that route.....

You will bw happy with the Konrads, I was happy when I got them for my Mistress. Great prop selections with the Konrads, shorter X dimension which usually means more speed, becasue Cigarette used a very conservative x dimension on TRS Setups. Konrad has great customer service. you won't be sorry. Good luck with your project.

Thanks Justin!

Here's a shot of my old Top Gun. It was a TRS boat, we converted it to the Konrad 540 PRS system spring 2004. I'm in my sixth season, no issues.

Kurt

http://i817.photobucket.com/albums/z...rtsKonrads.jpg

How about Arneson Surface Drives on a flat bottom Cigarette? I don't know how good they perform on flat bottom Cigarette, but I would think they would be the strongest. You'll also have a rooster tail.:D

Thanks again for all your help Kurt. Nice looking setup.

On another note, what's the difference beteen hyd steering (the cylinders) being located outside of the drive vs. in between the drives?

I love the look of having them inside, however:
1. Is there any real advantage?
2. Can you switch from out to in?

Also, is the trim reservoir an add-on for the Konrad 540 package or does it come with it? I didn't tear into the box yet.

those konrads look great and that is in my plans to put them on in the future and replace the trs should be a solid package

If there's room to mount the steering cylinders inside of the drives it makes for a better installation as the K-Planes can get in the way and drive the brackets higher than desired. You want the cylinders mounted even with the transom assembly hinge pins (crank centerline). I've seen a few older Cigarettes with the cylinders mounted outside the drives but it also requires a special top cap to attach the rams to.

I've ran my drives spinning in and out many times over the years. It carries the nose better spinning in and is a little faster but docking manners suffer. Presently, I'm spinning out.

The billett drive lube reservoirs are included with all new Konrad hi performance drive packages.

Feel free to give me a shout if I can help in any way.

Kurt 715-410-0735

You mean like this! :D

Love the rooster tail. How fast?

110

Rik -- Are those the bravo conversions? I always wondered how they would work on the straight bottom gun...

Yes, the #7M Kits are on that 1986 38' Top Gun. Runs strong and they have been very happy for the past 4 yrs with this setup.

Yeah, tell us more.... What HP?

Whats the cost?

Konrads cost is fairly well known. What'd these run?

That particular Cig has a pair of 1,000's in it.

Tank, the cost of the Arnesons is very well known also. A complete drive kit, not a piece of a drive, or part of another but a complete kit from the engine bell housing rearward (including the steering helm) is $23K.