looking to buy Top Gun
 

I have a few questions that Cig owners could possibly answer.In 2001 the top gun changed to a twin step.All things being even how much faster was the twin step over the flat bottom in 2001?And was the faster speed attributed to the steps?Or something else like different hull configuration/lighter boat?something like that.there has been a 2001 flat bottom on ebay for a while that looks nice.I guess this is the boat I have questions about.Any input would be appreciated.

The stepped hull added 15-20mph with the same power. The boat pretty much stayed the same weight, maybe a little lighter.

I think that above difference might be a little liberal.
10-15% more efficient is something a little more realistic.

Michael Peters- Professional boat builder article http://proboat.com/wp-content/upload...ower127low.pdf

"we were asked by Cigarette Racing Team (Opa Locka,
Florida) to step the bottoms of four
different models ranging in size from
30' to 42' (9.1m to 12.8m). Each of
those required us to work with the
existing molds. We developed step
inserts, and each of the four models
picked up 7–8 mph (11.2–12.8 kmh).
To my mind, those boats offer perfect
before-and-after examples of what a
well-designed step can achieve.
Here’s a stepped Cigarette [23, 24]."

Maybe there getting 15mph with the steps and weight difference then??

Here is an example...you be the judge.

1994: flat bottom, bravo xr, 500 efis = 70mph

2002: twin step, bravo xr, 500 efis = 81-83 mph

In my opinion, realistically looking at 10-12 mph. The post above 15-20 is a stretch.

Thanks for all the input

I guess 20 is a little much! I remember watching a factory Cigarette Video explaining the steps and it said 15mph.

You would have to do two other things to show the impact of the steps, and only the steps: Make sure the stepped and non stepped boats weight the same and have exactly the same X dimension. If these two things were done, I would be surprised if the steps added even 7mph.

Also balance - full cabin vs. "covergirl"? (half cabin)

If you think what Cigarette now builds can be called a full cabin, then you must think of a tent as 5 star accommodations.

Put an Active Thunder, Nor-tech or Outerlimits cabin with a real head, generator and AC in a twin step Cig and see how it runs.

Just saying there is variation in cabin weight in Top Guns that will affect the boats balance which is significant in how the boat runs-

Straight bottom with 500's = +/- 70 mph

TS bottom with 500's = +/-82mph

I'm curious if you actually can compare apples to apples, would the strait bottom and the TS have the same X dimension and run the same props or are they (at least drive height) different between hulls?

I know that you will never be able to directly compare, but what I am saying is that when they went to the TS bottom, it wasn't just the steps, it was the elimination of the full cabin, and new prop tech which allowed for a higher X dimension.

I hear ya. My last post was more of a question; I'm still learning..

I agree it's hard to get a true comparison. How about this though, if you put 900's in a stepped 46 it will easily run over a hundred. Now put those 900's in a straight bottom 38 and I bet it doesn't hit 100. The 46 is significantly heavier even without a full cabin and is way faster so the steps must be doing something. I know it's not apples to apples.

Just my opinion, I have ran with a lot of TS guns, and when it gets 4 foot plus, windy, raining, and 100 miles to go, I would rather be in my old, heavy, straight bottom, with big drives.

Stop being so logical!

I'm with you ZP. There a lot of factors to consider when making these comparisons .
But given the choice I wouldn't trade my straight bottom for step boat, the mph gain isn't worth it to me .
They may faster but I much prefer the handling of the straight hull . Just my opinion.
RG.

Awesome read, thank you very much for posting this link!!!

It's true, my 1993 with 875hp and drives x dimension as high as the sky only ran 98. I could have squeezed the last 2 out but i sold the boat. Prop change etc.

Man, 98 is smokin right along!

Run high 80's with stepped 35 and warmed up 500s. Ran 91 with light fuel.

But not in the rough.... And not for long, in a bravo boat

"No Truth on the Internet". Lol. I agree. I miss the 3As

Hey ZP, I will swop boats with you. We will make that happen this year on the St John's trip, lol. I got caught in Orange Beach a couple years ago (not paying attention), no rain but enough winds to cause a problem having to get back to Destin.
It was pretty hairy. I not a good judge of how big the water was but I sure am glad it wasn't any bigger.

Agreed. At least in this particular application. I do tend to think other hulls gain more from steps than top guns. A good example was the RR vs TG.

I am still a firm beleiver that the old flat bottom guns weigh a bit more than the new ones. I pointed out several key differences in another thread:

1. Steps reduce overall hull material weight
2. Newer TG's have barebone cabins
3. Newer TG's seem to have less material layup especially in the cowling area. I've seen a few new TG's have quite a bit of cracking.
4. Newer boats only utilize 1 fuel tank

Whether it makes a difference who knows. I know there has been quite a bit of discussion on which one handles the rough better. TS owners say they fly better. Flat bottom guys say weight and flat bottoms crush waves. Who knows. Just go enjoy what you have!!!

Excellent, we all have great boats that we are lucky to enjoy, old or new. It is a an incredible rush to look over the deck of any Cigarette while running, cruising, or idling out. Just a great feeling of pride of ownership, nostalgia, ego, and operating such a precision piece of equipment, and history.

Those are among the very reasons why I'm anxiously anticipating this spring.. + 16 cylinders harmonizing rhythmically running down the river on the way to sea.. Mmmmm..

It couldn't be said any better.

thanks for all the input.I agree the steps alone probably don't add to all the speed difference.drive height,cabin setup and weight all come into play.I bet there isn't even 5mph difference just from the steps.now I got to make a decision if I want to go older with speedmasters or newer with bravos.

Or newer with speedmaster's

What's your budget?

Pm me with what your looking for. I'm on the hunt too; I've been looking for a while and have seen quite a few.. If I were to vote on a budget for drives it'd be 3As...

I just reread the thread and was thinkin, lets say you had a bravo strait bottom boat w 900/side; now that's totally under "drived" ticking time bomb drives but you may be able to greatly reduce the wetted surface w/out the trannys and the motors being further back. So lets say your X was ideal and propped right. Can that boat run 100? Why do I think it could....?...

There are MANY owners of other brands of boats that will give you flack for exactly what you said here.....I have fought this battle many times..." Cigarette owners are egotistical, arrogant, cocky, ect, ect......
And I have always said...... ' There are two types of boat owners......ones that own a Cigarette and ones that WANT to own a Cigarette!'...Hahahaha....man does that piss them off!
I love a lot of different boats, but have always been partial to CIGARETTE

Kreed couldn't have said better myself .
RG.

I love my Cig and a lot of it is the history behind the brand. I have spent upwards of $60,000 on new interior, complete rebuilds on motors, powder coating the swim platform, repairing all scuff marks and clear coating the entire boat and couldn't be happier. It's a 2004 so I will never recoup the money but It is jam up now.

I agree 100% with your first sentenance! Thats it in a nut shell for me. The brand has a sole.. Not to mention the boats a just done right; their decks and hulls perfectly complete eachother.

Bino your boat looks awesome! Love your color combination