Phil M

In the early days - Offshore Racing was a bunch of Wealthy people - creating their own challenge - No fancy "Show" support trucks, no Uniforms, No TV, not even a big prize. They raced for the fun of it - and it was TRUE offshore - Sure it was a Ego trip - and they could afford it - The so called "sport" has changed from who can safely navigate and get from point one to point two - to a Speed run - not considering the size or depth of waves now - As far as coast guard approval - I wonder if they approved and supported the Miami to NY runs - several of them - dont think so.

The Cats came to Off shore to say who is the fastest - and it slowly changed the races from True offshore, requiring a Compass, and stamina to a roundy round circle event like river racing in hydros - its not really Offshore now - its CLOSE TO SHORE.

When in Argentina in 1978 for the World Championship - the waves were so high - boats would disappear from sight and then climb up the next wave. AND that was from a HELICOPTER - that view - not from another race boat. now, THAT WAS OFFSHORE !



My, How Offshore has Changed -

just my two cents worth - am glad I was around to see what TRUE offshore racing was like - it was not just how fast you got from point A to B - it was can you get there at all - and can your equipment survive too. Black Flag an offshore race - ha - ask a European racer that raced in Gurensey or in Viareggio - they may have not been the fastest races - but they were true OFF SHORE RACES.

HabanaJoe

Phil M

Even though I did not start racing till the mid 80's, everything you said is sooo true!!!

It wasn't being the fastest, it was being able to out last and out navigate the other guy!!!

I have a dumb question, please don't beat me up, I just don't know enough as to why it is this way - what makes a race a race and not a poker run or a gentlemen's race?

If I went on here and said I'm running from Sandy Hook to AC at 10:00 Saturday morning anyone want to try and beat me there?

What are the legal/insurance problems with that? On the open ocean there are no speed limits like a highway where you can't "race each other". There are laws to hang you out to dry if you are "racing".

Is that crazy or could you bring back the good old days? We all know the "sport" is a loser money wise, unlike NHRA or NASCAR. Didn't we all do it back then for the glory, what stands in the way of doing that again?

excalibur32

nothing stands in the way!!! dumb one's are supposed to die, that is why everything is screwed up when dummies mess up now the hospitals save them, so they can go on to spread the fruit of their loins and propragate more dummies and on and on.

Phil M

Well - today its MONEY MONEY MONEY - who has it - how much will they spend - how much will they lose - Ask Jerry Jacoby - he can tell you a lot - or many others - John Delia - some did it for fun - and glory - and how else not to leave it to your kids !

I see nothing stopping 5 to 10 people from organizing their own fun run - poker run - or race - - maybe even on a wild and windy day in the ocean - let them race at 50 miles an hour - over big seas - navigate far from land - Sure, it can be done - and probably will be done some day- too many people have tried to "professionalize" this (Exibition) sport - it just does not work - Boating has always been a money game - and Offshore or big boats all the more - ask anyone that has a Yacht - much less a high performance pleasure boat.

Things have evolved- and changed - but we still have the memories - no safety capsules - just stand up and take the wind and water - no jump suits - just shorts and a t shirt - so you can swim away. No sitting down and thinking you are a jet pilot - none of that.

I remember racing around Cape Cod - I had a bigger boat - 36 fot. Bertram - so i had to give the rest of the field a head start - did not matter - I knew when it would get rough - everyone would slow down - that was when the lenght of my boat counted. It was a one way trip - starting at the base, and racing all they way around the hook and back to the Canal - same with racing around Long Island sound - a ONE WAY trip ! even small boats did that then -

I was young and impressionable - when people like Bill Wishnick, Tony Azara - Tom Gentry - Willie Meyers - and many others raced - no jump suits then - that all changed when it became a circle racing circut - whats the expression for cars "if it dont go, chrome it" - cant figure out the expression to use on Offshore - guess just get a bigger rig (truck) - and fancy uniforms.

I have covered races with the Italians and other Europeans - I can tell you - they dont run a String of Pearls - meaning they dont run alone - they run in bunches - bow to bow - its real racing - it was I mean ! Here we just like to show and tell - get on the "race course" and run in circles - maybe we should limit the gasoline they can cary - and see who finishes or does not run out of gas - that might be more exciting -

We are lucky to have people like Charlie M. and Allen Brown - also people like Richie Powers - among many others that have been there and done it - they have experienced TRUE OFFSHORE RACING - we are lucky to hear their experiences too -

Just a quick example - I was in Viareggio filming for the Italians in 1992 - the race was canceled - I came back to Point Pleasant the next day for an event here - I saw Jack Stuteville - he asked me about the race - i told him it was canceled because of winds and waves - he asked was it blowing over the Sea Wall - i said No - was not that bad - he said - well - when we used to race there the water blew waves OVER the Sea wall - and they still raced - THAT was then - when Offshore was Offshore - now - thanks to the hydro racers we black flag a race when the sun does not shine.

some how - I wish the Cats never were allowed - many would probably be still alive at this time too - they would have run Big V bottoms to their limit - and their physical limits - now they race beyond their limits and ask why - Maybe its time to make new rules- and start the sport again - only this time - make it a ONE DESIGN race -meaning just V bottoms - let the Cats watch and live.

now to unwind ! have vented enough -

PHIL
[email protected]

oldschoolfan

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstrac...DE405B868DF1D3

Here is a race from new york to boston powerboat race.

HabanaJoe

Phil,

If you remember I was one of the people that started the Manufacturers "V" class in 1990. It was a good idea but like you said "ego's" get in the way and when cats start passing people it's time to get a cat.

Also, I think we need an insurance person here to answer a question. As I recall you pleasure boat polices are voided if your "racing" - what is racing?

On the roads, two cars that have pre-determined that they are going to race and are traveling above the speed limit - constitutes a "Race". That has a negative impact on you insurance wise and opens a whole can of worms regarding liability and possible criminal charges.

Do these things apply on the water (open areas) as well?

I'm not trying to start trouble with this, but what makes an open ocean event a race - organized buy a governing body, the fact that you advertise it as a "race", that you encourage spectators, that you have seregated lanes for operating in???? I just don't know the answer.

HabanaJoe

oldschoolfan -

That race is from 1916 and it goes back to my question, if I advertised a "get together" to do a run/race like that - is it veiwed as a race in the eyes of the Coast Gaurd & the insurance companies if no one sanctioned it and they were no prizes/ awards etc?

Dude! Sweet!

Seems like there's already an element to that in Poker Runs... I mean what's more interesting? They guy who has the best hand or the person who gets to the first card stop first?

HabanaJoe

Dude! Sweet!

I agree with that but when I read other threads here Poker Runs are having insurance trouble as well - how do get around that or why does it have to be insured?

I know this sounds basic but why do Poker Runs need insurance?

Dude! Sweet!

You know how it goes these days... If someone gets hurt, people employ the "dead cat" method trying to get compensated for their injuries... As in, you can't swing a dead cat without hitting someone who's going to get sued at a poker run whenever something goes wrong. Insurance is there to protect the company that puts on the poker run and the people who set up the company in the event that the plaintiff is able to "pierce the corporate veil" and go after the organizers personally.

A sense of personal responsibility (a dead concept) would go a LONG way to making motorsports of all kinds more viable and accessible.

And, it's my opinion that the 'not-races' you suggested probably go on every weekend all over...