Restoring a squadron 12
 

I am in the process of restoring a squadron 12. But my question is, I want to update the restoration with a new color scheme, bigger motors, new upholstery, etc; my only concern is should i restore the boat to its original condition for value purposes or does it matter? Any thoughts or ideas are greatly appreciated!

Restoring any boat = flushing money down the toilet, so just do what makes you happy. Nothing is going to make a profit, unless you're really lucky. That said, I would rather have a period correct boat, than an older boat with a "modern" interior and "modern" graphics. I emphasize modern, because powerboating style is generally stuck in 1996. A lot of newer boats look hilariously awful.

I am restoring/rebuilding a 27 Squadron XII. I am going back to a custom look, still classic but with a modern touch here and there, especially the power and drive...

Send me an email, I would like to see pics of your project.
There are very few Squadron owners out there, we should stick together!
[email protected]

Is yours the one in Marietta GA? If so I stopped by your shop a while back hoping it was for sale! I would go back original with maybe some subtle updates. If you paint it like a newer Cig I would definitely stick with the old Squadron logos instead of writing Cigarette on it. I've seen a few Cigs around but never a SquadronXII.

I am big on the resto-mod idea of the older boats. Modern drive lines and electronics, understated interiors, and a timeless paint scheme. White Deck and hull bottom and solid color sides with an accent stripe is the way I would do mine.
Look at the Playboy Cigs and Donzi Classics. No matter what colors are "in" they never look outdated.
Also, def. put the Squadron XII logos back on and don't re-label it as a Cigarette.

Two of my friends have older 38 flatdeck cigarettes. Both of them kept the original theme. Both boats are super clean, and they kept the original pleated/tuck-n-roll style cockpit vinyl, even the big stainless horns on the decks. I absolutly love how they kept them correct, even with the old morse throttles. Custom is cool, but i think originality is the way to go.

Kind of like going to a car show. I'd rather see a 100 percent original restored hemi cuda, than one with recaro seats, big wheels, and crazy paint job.

Keeping it original = a time machine.

I'd paint it like one of the poster boats.
I'm assuming you have a 27ft???

I like classic cars and boats that have a modern spin to them. I'm not that sentimental I guess, but why spend all that money to have a boat that looks like it's a 1981? I'd rather have a boat with timeless lines, but the appearance of a 2010.

The trick is to be subtle and classy with it.

JMHO.

Yeah but usually an older boat with "modern" graphics looks dated the minute it is finished, since "modern graphics" in the powerboating realm are usually about 10 years behind the times.

My buddy has a 24 squadron XII thats never been rigged.

Probably the only one of its kind.

I am not a cig guy so I dont much about them but I know the hull has never been cut.

+1

that must be the one that sold on ebay...did he get good paperwork with the correct XEX HIN on the boat? seller was evasive on that front...

-----I sold him that unrigged Squadron.......Bill S

if you are referring to the post by ctsutphen, then there must be 2 of them! here is the one from CT that was on ebay. seller was in east hampton.

http://i369.photobucket.com/albums/o...MLooMrHT_3.jpg

http://i369.photobucket.com/albums/o...Lon0ehjw_3.jpg

That hatch looks exactly like the one that is missing from my 27... HMMMMM...

Wanna sell it??

the boat is what it is . If the boat dosent intrest u or u dont like it, go buy one of the other 24 foot squadroon 12s that has never been rigged LOL

sounds like you are the "seller"...otherwise, i really don't get your comment. if your post is referring to me, i never said i didn't like the boat, in fact...as i stated in my other post in the Cigarette section, I would love to own a 24 or 27 Squadron. That said, unless it has XEX HIN and paperwork, it aint worth sh*t because the best anyone can do is title it as "homemade" a try and convince everyone its the real deal...

BTW...u were selling a 27 Excaliber Speedster at one point also...and another boat i think is extremely cool...and rare.

24
 

The hull is an orginal squadron 12 hull made by Mr Arnnow Theres a long story behind it that I wont get into but hin or not I dont have to Prove to anyone what it is . I know thats all that matters to me If The hull numbers were ground off your boat would that not make it what it is? And as to this hull being repopped not really as there were so few made . Its just my point of view not picking fights with anyone . Your correct as to resale with the hin numbers But I really dont care with this hull one way or the other If u want to check it out sean for ****s and giggles Your welcome to Its a neat piece of history And your only 10 miniutes away

Thats rediculous, allot of people know this boat. Its pretty well known that it was a real squadron 12 and regardless of what HIN ends up on the boat its never going to be anything but a squadron 12.

The only question is: will people who dont really matter beleive it.

The answer to that is WHO CARES!!

If your buying a boat for what others think your buying the boat for the wrong reasons anyway.

Now if you want a BAD AZZ boat thats basically brand new , that you know is what it is and your gonna enjoy it for yourself then your looking at the right boat.LOL


while I am not a Cig guy, (I am a sutphen guy) I wouldnt Give a crap what the HIN was on a sutphen as long as it came out of the sutphen factory. I dont even know what my HIN is on my boat and I dont care.LOL

By the way arent you the guy whos into RESTO MODDING the old boats. So somethings are OK to change hiistory on but a ground in HIN isnt?

WTF kind of logic is that?

I don't give a crap about what people think of what I'm running...but i do care about resale value and you'll care when it comes time to sell it because it will never be worth it's true value without legitimate paperwork. Would you pay COPO money for a 69 Camaro without proper documentation? Didn't think so Not doubting it's quality or authenticity, but without proper paperwork, your market for this boat becomes limited.

To your point about resto-mods, these boats will never be in the same realm as classic cars and will never even come close to "numbers-matching", so to put new power in a classic boat can only increase it's value over some bored-out tired motor that 20 people have been wrenching on for the past 30 years. As for the 24 in question, since it never had any power at all, none of this applies because it was never rigged.

engine hatch looks to be off another boat

sean I dont believe either of US ever claimed the boat was worth EXACTLY what a boat with a cig HIN would be worth unrigged.

your quote: ( That said, unless it has XEX HIN and paperwork, it aint worth sh*t because the best anyone can do is title it as "homemade" a try and convince everyone its the real deal...)

It was you that barged in and said the boat wasnt worth SH&^ if I remember correctly.

Thats a very strong statement about someones boat, thats been kept untouched for many many years. Its dry and has never been cut and has the style and history of one of the most sought after boats around. It IS in fact a squadron 12 based on the trail of its history and word of its past owners.
That ALONE is enough to certainly make it worth a fair amount of money.

As for a yenko comparison can you hoestly say that a yenko that came out of the back door of the factory, had the story of all its passed owners to back up its authenticity but had never been VIN'd or used at all wouldnt be worth allot of money?

Having owned some of the rarest cars around RAIV firebirds I can tell you It likely would be worth MORE than its yenko brethren because it would be one of one!

Might not be big $ to you but my copo clone just sold for 89K! as for Mr beckers stuff i've noticed alot of bad azz chit he's had!! Rich

hull numbers and aronow boats....

i am sure there are many aronow hulls with numbers and without.

best of luck with your restoration. if you need guidance let me know.

Chris

I agree. I mentioned that earlier, Looks kinda familiar. I'll bet I know which boat it came off of..

Cig20, can you send me an email or PM please.

Toasty, Hows that sutphen doing?

Golf max Thats good input on the copo clone.

I think we al know that cars are different than boats but at the same time. I think that was good money for your clone.

I bet it was every bit as fun as a real COPO maybe more because you didnt have the worries so much.

As for this boat. The trail of owners previous shows it to be the real deal.

We al know its not the same as having the HIN to PROVE its authenticity but since No other unrigged squadron 12's are available it sure makes it a very rare peice and anything that rare is gonna have some good value.

As for that hatch I dont think Brian would ever let it go without the boat but I suppose everything is for sale at the right price.LOL

I know he doesnt really want to sell this boat but hes got too much stuff and no place to keep it all really.

whats the difference between a squadron xii (hull) and a mag sport? Thanks in advance.

Fantastic project! I really don't believe not having the hull number will make much difference. What will though is the rigging and quality of components used to set her up. The hardest part in my opinion will be choosing the interior and exterior look. I believe that could have a large impact on the
resale value. Please post photos and progress reports.
One of my favorite boats!

is this boat in question sold or still forsale

Well thats a question for brian. Hes not big on the Idea of selling it and it didnt sell on ebay.

I personally think he should sell it because its alot of work to put together and although he already has the 502 and allot of other parts to do the job He has other boats too. One that is 99% done and ready to rock and roll.

This boat is for someone who has allot of time to be meticulous and do everything 100% right and the place to do it.
Thats just my opinion.
As someone above stated if you do it well youd have one hell of a killer boat in the end.
Dont do it well and you just have another garden variety boat.

This could be a Project boat that allot of people would follow with a ton of interest because it IS a very interesting hull with an interesting past.

Can we trace the ownership of the hatch?
It looks to be the perfect match for my restoration, especially since mine is missing its hatch..

It would be awesome to have the original hatch back for my Squadron...

http://www.centralmissourimarine.com...42_500x375.jpg

http://i369.photobucket.com/albums/o...Lon0ehjw_3.jpg

Thank you to everyone for your input on restoring my squadron. I really appreciate it! I am definitely going to put the squadron xii logos on the boat. And JnT, yes that is my boat in Marietta, GA and you actually spoke with my dad about it! It is at his shop, and will be there, so feel free to stop by any time. Maybe we will run into each other up there. 26 Spyder, I will def email you some pics if you are interested. And as far as the "hull" conversation, I am assuming that is not anything to do with my boat?? Mine is hull #16 if anyone is curious! Again, thanks for your opinions and advice. It's greatly appreciated. :)

Oh, and Tom A, I like the way you think. We are def on the same page!

Please stay in touch with the pics. I also have dug up a lot of info if on these boats.
I have hull # 18 which is the last of the 27s.

Perhaps "sh*t" was a poor choice of words on my part, but brian's response to my ebay question spoke volumes...because there was no respsonse...so what does that tell you??? People need to be more up front and honest right from the start...

no matter though...best of luck with the restoration and/or sale of the 24...im done on this subject.

81squadronxii - best of luck with your restoration, be sure to post pic or email to me and i'd be happy to post!

81squadronXII Sorry for the thread Hijack.


I just felt I had to defend this boat and its history.

I realize sometime people get a little carried away.

sean I realize you didnt get a reply on your question but I dont think that was him not being up front about anything He just didnt answer you. maybe it slipped his mind, maybe he got busy, Or maybe he just had a ton of emails to answer.

I know he got 100's of emails on this boat when it was online.

I highly doubt he intended to mislead you because he has always been very up front about the HIN withanyone he told the story of this boat too in front of me.

Brian has had allot on his plate too

Your Dad does some great paint work judging by what I saw at the shop. He showed me the pics of how you want the boat to look and it was killer. Just stick with the Squadron graphics and it will be beautiful. Throw some big horsepower in that fine boat and make her run.
Damn I'm jealous!
Wanna sell it??

its a slow process... but doing well

TRS request for Brian
 

Brian,you buddy 30ctsuphen said you may have a set of rebuilt old style TRS drive rams, I need the old style with the hydro lines at the front of the ram,near the transom. I restore old Magnums www.magnumboatrestoration.com. Bud