First Boat Selection
 

Hi all. Lurked here a while, and thought I'd post in the classics....because it seems my budget would pretty much put me there anyway. I grew up on boats when I was younger...but mostly open bows and basscats (Dad fished a lot). I have a fair amount of experience driving those style of boats...all 20' or under. I decided at the ripe age of 37 I just can't stand not having a boat any longer...so I'm buying my first, and I'd like your help for suggestions. Here's a little info to help get an idea of what I'm looking for.

- My truck is a '97 Silverado and I'm not looking to upgrade the tow vehicle at this time. Towing capacity is 6500 lbs, so from my estimates max dry weight for a boat should be 4000, but preferable of 3500. Boat will mainly be used for day trips...so I'll be towing it everywhere.

- Boat will be used on local lakes and rivers only. Biggest lake probably Kentucky...might see Ozarks. I wouldn't expect more than 3-31/2 footers tops.

- Looking for something with a closed bow, and a cuddy that could sleep two occasionally...meaning once or twice a year.

- Only want an I/O, not interested in outboards or jet.

- My budget is $10-$15K....prefer to stay closet to 10K, but if the right deal came along I'd be willing to go towards $15.

- I understand ride and speed are kind of opposites in the boating world....but I'd like something that would get me home in 3+ footers, with a top speed of at least 60mph. Why have a performance boat if I can't beat my buddies bow rider. :angry-smiley-038:

- I'm used to open bows and bass boats...so I'm used to an open floor plan. I guess for this reason closed bow boats look cramped...but I haven't been in one...so that might just be perception. Regardless the roomier the cockpit the better I suppose.

- Finally boat ideas I've collected whie lurking: Pachanga 22, Wellcraft 23XL, Formula 233, Liberator 211 & 201, Velocity 22, Checkmate 251, Baja 240 & 236.

- Not looking for a big project boat...prefer turn key.

If I missed something that needs to be known to help with ideas let me know and I'll post more info. Hope to hear ideas or opinions. And if anyone knows of a boat they think would fit the bill within 750 miles of St. Louis, MO let me know.

Thanks in advance.

I think you selection and size of boats is right on target. You will definitely have to stay 25ft or smaller. 23ft might be better in weight as you get closer to 25ft you might approach 5k lbs. But with a 10-15k budget and what your looking for mid 90's to maybe even late 90's might be possible

I think youll find a performance boat will operate just as well if not better in chop than a standard bow rider or cuddy cabin. really a performance boat is not much different than your standard cuddy in that length minus the engine and sleaker hull design. Unless you get a 454 youll pretty hard pressed in any of those configurations you mentioned to get 60mph.


You can try iboats.com, powerboatlistings.com, craigs list etc.

Like any boat do a good inspection of the boat. You may want a survey done and have the engine checked unless you are mechanical yourself.

Also take a look at crownline 225CCR and LPX,s LPXs are a CCR just a littl more sportier. I had a 225 CCR before my fountain it had a 350 but can come in a 454. Crowns are nice boats, for the money I think you will get a little more boat out of a crown than a liberator or even baja.

http://www.powerboatlistings.com/view/13872

Velocity! pad bottom boat, well built, lightweight, great support, and faster than any other non-stepped V.

This looks nice. Would be a good first boat.

http://maine.craigslist.org/boa/2928070327.html

Add a Scarab 22 to your list, should fit all that criteria.

-Rob

With one exception:
- Looking for something with a closed bow, and a cuddy that could sleep two occasionally...meaning once or twice a year.

Last time I checked a Scarab 22 didnt have any kind of cabin--just carpet! Not exactly sure I would want to weekend on one.

Agree with everyone else--a 22-24 foot boat is what you are looking for and probably early to mid 90's with a 454 and a bravo 1.
I would add a 1994-1995 Powerquest 257 to your list. They weigh 4200 lbs dry and with a 454 mag efi will do 62 mph. Well built boats with a 23 degree transom deadrise and are built to handle lake michigan. Nice cabin in them too.

Here is a boat worth looking at:
http://stlouis.craigslist.org/boa/2924283836.html

This one too but Im not sure how much it weighs:
http://stlouis.craigslist.org/boa/2928221937.html

http://stlouis.craigslist.org/boa/2902376283.html

That's true, forgot they changed that. I have a 90 Scarab 21', same hull different cockpit layout. A lot more overnight friendly. An 89 - 91 Scarab 21' would be a good choice.

-Rob

Thanks for the responses thus far. Let me clarify the cuddy thing....I don't need a sink...or an icebox, etc., just a place to store beer, and comfortable enough to sleep in with the lady friend a time or two a year.

In response to suggestions thus far: I like the LPX crowns, but find them out of my price range thus far. The other crowns I'm not partial to because I don't want something every tom, dick, & harry has on the lake. The formula would be nice....but I have to watch those east coast boats and make sure they haven't been in salt water. I wasn't familiar with powerquest till I started the boat search....haven't seen one in person, but look nice on craigslist. The sunsation here in STL I've had my eye on...I think he says it runs 63. It was parked at the ozarks (3+ hours away)...but I think he brought it home...so I might have to go take a look. I've found just about any boat in the 26' range is too heavy. I'd upgrade the towing rig, but I've put too much money into her and don't want to lose my you know what.

More questions: How do you guys feel about buying boats with modified engines. Seems like it's taking a chance unless the guy has a full spec sheet of what was done.

And how cramped is a 7' beam? I ask because I'm pretty sure the sunsation in STL is a 7' beam. I don't need the room of a cadillac, but don't want the room of a mazda miata either.

to me in a boat your looking at I would stay away from modded engines. Alot of these sized boats were bought because of budgets thus upgrading the engine on a budget. Realistically everything your looking at I would not want to go much faster than 60mph anyways. Powerquest are very good boats for your buck forgot about those. They will start getting close with a trailer to the limit of your truck so keep that in mind. As far as stuff in the cabin like a sink and such youll find many have sinks. On your budget and the boats your looking at, its going to be what you get kind of a think. a 22ft scarab or Bajas cabin is going to very small. Not to flame anybody but in my search for boats velocitys were lacking in a lot of areas. They are a nice deep boat the cock pits are very deep, but I personally would spend money elsewhere. Also if you look, they are hard to find but Fountain CS's are out there, they are 24ft.

As far as cabin space boats of that size for the most part are going to have a queen or full sized bed but most of them you will not be able to stand up in and most of them the bed will old down to fully utilitze. Personally I would find something that fits the bill in every other category first. You said your talking 1-2 nights a year, and any of those will accomadate you. When you go for more of a hyrbid such as the Crown LPX you will get more of the cabin stuff your are talking including shore power plug in, battery recharge etc.

If I were you I would put my focus on the Formulas, Crowns, Power Quest.

also google lake of the ozarks and look for dealers a lot of good boats down there.

this guy is way over priced but this is a CS http://www.powerboatlistings.com/view/12761

Its amazing how SHALLOW the V is on those CS's. I had heard they were awefull rough boats in anything over 12 inch chop and now I know why. Also, do those have any kind of cabin? Doesnt look like it from the pics....

A 1988 Baja 240 Sport (24 Outlaw) weighs 6500 lbs with a full tank of fuel on a steel trailer (My trailer is about 1200 lbs).

One thing to note about any boat in that vintage, chances are it's going to have rot somewhere. Make sure you knock the floors, transom and stringers good before plunking down the cash.

Here you go....Perfect boat and in your budget. 500 miles away

http://oklahomacity.craigslist.org/boa/2855902409.html

Ajex,

I don't know if you are inclined towards a true classic...but I have knowledge of a '80 model Formula 233 Interceptor with twin 260's that will be available soon. This boat is owned by the widow of the 2nd owner and it has been maintained with an open check book for 25 years.

It is a Great Lakes boat and will make about 65 flat out. If you are interested I will follow up with more info. You can get this one for about $7500.

[IMG]http://i705.photobucket.com/albums/w...DSC01015-1.jpg[/IMG]

Sprink, Thats a frigging Bargain (On a Friggin Classic :) )

Yea...I know. If I wasn't so far into this 255 project it would be mine.

Sprink thanks for the info, and a good lookin boat, but I think I want to start with just one motor & drive to worry about.

The Powerquest looks good, nice find, I'll have to get more pics. I'm callin the guy a out the sunsations tomorrow. Found a very nice pachanga 22 but it's got a 454 mated to an alpha. He says never had a problem, but I've read enough to hear bad stories. Thoughts?

Not an if...but a when. You could always run it until it breaks...then replace the drive...Alpha's are cheap and can be had easily.

Ive always heard if you baby the drive (dont hammer it to get on plane) and dont jump waves that you can make an alpha last a really long time. Of course, doing all this takes some of the fun out of owning the boat! Personally, I would never buy a boat that had the big block alpha combo. I dont think that combo was available for long..1987? I know the Bravo was out by 1988 and everything in 1984 and 1985 was TRS.

Ditto that...that is the main reason I am upgrading to Bravo's even with very stout Small Blocks.

What would be the cost to upgrade to a Bravo from an Alpha? Cost in parts? Cost in labor?

This Pachanga looks clean but is in Atlanta. I've heard good things about them from other members.

http://atlanta.craigslist.org/nat/boa/2841765277.html

Thanks for the link JnT. This is why I asked about how much it would cost to install a bravo...cause I have a couple that are closer for sale...in excellent shape...and about $5000-$6000 less. Guess my thought is if installing a bravo is say (and I have no idea), $3500, I could just buy one local and when the alpha breaks upgrade.

From reading this is probably opening a can of worms, but how do you guys feel about a Regal Velocity '89. I know the song and dance about not being as good as the originial velocity 22 and not as good after regal and the other guy split.....but also hear some good things on these boards. Thoughts?

Here is the latest breakdown and estimate Alpha to Bravo:

This considering all DIY labor. I you buy it done you can double the numbers.

Bravo Transom Assembly,rams, trim pump, cables. $1200~$1500
Bravo I drive in good condition, $1200~$2500
Bravo Bell Housing and coupler, $500~$600
Bravo Cooling Pump and plumbing $75~$1000
Misc seal, hardware, etc. $500

This requires that you pull the engine and replace the transom assembly. If you are set up to do this in a shop (I am) it is not a big deal. If you are doing this in your drive way...this is like removing the engine and transmission in a Van.

My recommendation...if you are not prepared to do this...don't do it...buy a boat that has the equipment you want.

Go to the Velocity website for more info...but basically, the Velocity founder severed his ties with Regal due to sub standard quality issues.

Velocity is a very high end un compromised boat builder...they don't build junk.

I own a PowerQuest Spectra 222 XL. It is a 1995 with a 454 Mag. I bought it 2 years ago with only 105 hours on it for $14000. It has a nice cabin with a decent sized bed and 2 seats. It will do 60 mph. I realyy love the boat. Mine is not for sale but I would highly recommend one as a first boat. Very good quality and has a fiberglass cockpit liner with snap in carpet.

One of my bud's purchased a 1996 Baja 236 w/300hrs last year for 12500. It's a big little boat with a 454. I was pretty much shocked at how much space was in the salon and the cockpit.
The only problem it has is the low water pickup in the skag of the outdrive.
After gobbling up some sand and small pebbles beaching on the San Jacinto river it ate up the water pump/fuel combo whatchamadigger. It was pricey and a pain in the ass to replace.
It'll hit high 50's to about 60 in the right water conditions.
Last year at the Toys for Tots run here in SE Texas we were in some 3+'s crossing Matagorda Bay, it was a rather bumpy ride at speed but took it like a champ as we got dusted by the bigger boats.
The good thing about older Baja's is they tend to be priced better than some of the more favored Mfg's models.

See ya,
Kelly

go on speedwake.com they have this section they call microboats. that is a 23 and under single I/O offshore perf boat. there is a sticky at the top with everyone listed in GPS speed order from 90's down to 50's. there are more Donzi 22 classics than anything else. plus most have a quik rundown on their setups. when did the Velocity become the Regal Velocity?

[
And how cramped is a 7' beam? I ask because I'm pretty sure the sunsation in STL is a 7' beam. I don't need the room of a cadillac, but don't want the room of a mazda miata either.[/QUOTE]

Yes it's a 7' beam. I got a 1990 Sunsation Rocket, basicly the same boat and I don't find it to be cramped. You also have plenty of storage under the rear seat and the cuddy does have alot of room, more than you would expect. It's worth taking a look at that boat.

i don't know about Pachangas. it is a SeaRay. they only made them for like 2 or 3 years. i almost bought a 19 Pach, but it was cheap and dead. the other boats your looking at, they built their name with perf boats. a Chris 22 Stinger is same category. wierd small cockpit. seats 2 in back by dropping sun pad into a pair of seats with a 454 screaming right next to passengers. at least Chris did speed boats in that size range, but it was the 20's to the 60's and wood. i am pretty sure times have changed a little.

Found a couple nice boats...at least from the pics and per owners..haven't traveled to see them. Mirage 217 and checkmate 251. Thoughts on these? I'm going with the recommendations here and no big block alpha combos. No way am I set up to do the swap myself and sounds like a lot of money to have someone do the swap.

The checkmate should run 65 with a big block and are pretty solid boats for the size. Been in a couple convincers and use to own a 22. I don't know anything about the mirage.

My first 2 boats were Mirage's. There were built here in Washington--very high build quality (lifetime warranty on the hull which was better than Formula or Donzi at the time). Everything on their boats was built to last and most came with heaters (nice to have). The 217 is a nice offshore boat. 21 degree transom deadrise, 3850 lbs dry and with a 330 hp big block and bravo one will do about 60 mph. A 5.7 litre/alpha combo will hit about 47 mph.
Mirage used the same hull on the 232 and just changed the deck. I think they made them from 1986 to 1996. Mirage closed their doors in 1998.

Depending on what year and engine you are looking at I would say you should be able to get one for anywhere from $7000-$9,000.

What would you pay for a '91 checkmate 251 in great shape?? 454 mag.

Is it this one?
http://stlouis.craigslist.org/boa/2933626030.html

That price might be a little high but it looks clean. $13k?

Yes sir. I offered 12k and that was a no go. It's very clean, but how high should I go? 13k tops??

i know you want turn-key. but there is a lot of $5k stuff out there that needs $2k in interior or $4k in motor work. i can't see more than 10 for a 21 year old Checkmate.