Side exhaust
 

I UNDERSTAND THERE WERE A NUMBER OF OFF SHORE BOATS N THE 60's70's THAT RAN WITH SIDE EXHAUST:

1. What was the advantage of side over rear exhaust ?
2.Who was the principal manufacture ?
3.I understand they were considerable louder than rear exhaust.
4.What were some of the boats that raced with them
5.Dd they give the boat any advantage ?

Any other feed back would be helpful...Bud

why would they be louder? I don't see why there would be any difference...

Still remember the INXS boat of Sabarese had side exhausts.

It was insanely loud - pretty quick too.

1. What was the advantage of side over rear exhaust?
Nothing, just the closest way to get out of the boat

2. Who was the principal manufacture?
A couple builders did it on a couple production boats. I think Chris Craft did it on a couple models.

3. I understand they were considerable louder than rear exhaust.
Sounds level is the same but it’s only 4 out of 8 cylinders because the boats hull blocks the noise from the other exhaust outlet.

4. What were some of the boats that raced with them?
My 1967 Nova 24 race boat because it had one motor in front and one in back both tail to tail going to a single V drive to a single prop.

5. Did they give the boat any advantage?
See #1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zg_Tg1BrwHU&list=PLBcphYdOqWq6SD-TBhKMaDSx5o5rbpuQE&index=7

Hi Bud, I remember the side exhausts, they were really cool. They were only louder for the crew because the discharge is closer to the people in the boat, instead of when they go straight out the transom. They are louder for spectators because the boats would normally go across your field of vision and so you were subjected to hearing the exhaust end-on, which is naturally louder.

I think it was Patterson that used to be the main manufacturer, not sure what happened to them, you don't hear of them any more??

I Like it Too, Black Tornado, Dantes Inferno/Kaama 36' Cig, a lot of the Bertram 38's, all had side exhausts. I'm not sure why thy were favoured but they were brilliant.

I know the engine builder/throttleman for a boat called I Like it Too. It was very successful in the UK in the early-mid 70's. The boat was previously Aeromarine III. The guy I'm talking about has very bad hearing......he says that it was the side exgausts on that boat that did it......

I'm pretty sure the reason people stopped using them was to allow for better access around the engine compartment. Also Kiekhaefer developed his own headers which were desigbed to develop maximum torque/power at c.5000 rpm and as a consequence they were a lot bigger, so they were better suited to running fwd/aft......

[ATTACH=CONFIG]533728[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]533729[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]533730[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]533731[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]533732[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]533740[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]533741[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]533742[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]533733[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]533734[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]533735[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]533737[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]533738[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]533739[/ATTACH]

I would think it also gave them a little more room to work on the engines. On a full stagger set up the pipes from the front motor can be a problem when trying to get at the rear engine. Now you see a lot of them just running the pipes out the top, through to engine hatches

Nice Nova, Maltese Magnum Twin had a very similar configuration.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]533757[/ATTACH]

Thanks but it's really Brownies boat I'm the keeper of it for a while.

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b2...nname/2-12.jpg

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b2...nname/3-13.jpg

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b2...nname/4-12.jpg

Very nice, are they 350's or 383's?

454's
Trying to get another Kiekhaefer 482 offshore race motor together. Have one that is in my Biesemeyer now I built last winter. Just got to find another 427 tall deck to stroke out to a 482 now that I know how to do it.

Wow, they are big motors in that size boat, very cool! Oh, I've just notice I put 373, that should have been 383..........anyhow...........my father used to have a 28' Magnum with a pair of 482's......V-boxes on straight shafts......pretty cutting edge in 1968!

When you say 482 Kiekhaefer, do you mean one of the injected Champion Makers, with the geared drive train for the ancillaries, or are you talking naturally aspirated?

Did you go to OFF this year?

Ya, I don't want to speak for Brownie but from what I remember they tried the set up in a Donzi the season before. Who knows where the original idea came from. PT boats back during the war used a couple motors into a single V drive so its been around for a while.
The Kiekhaefer 482 I'm talking about is from the 1969 era (nat asp). Mine was all original when I got it (broken and beaten). Looks to have been broken and sat on a shelf for many years. It was never opened for repairs so everything was there down to the gasket numbers. I thought it was a one off build until I found the rods had Kiekhaefer on the sides. A little internet searching and Bob M (the cam guy) filled in the rest. Only had the one motor and it took most of the winter to get it back together so I dropped it in my Biesemeyer drag boat for a season or until I can stay out of trouble long enough to afford to build a clone. Then they both will go in the race boat.

I've been trying to get to OFF for a couple years now but life, boats, kids, etc, etc, keep getting in the way. Spent a couple grand getting the original trailer in shape for long road trips just to get down there. Just have not made it yet.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIsKWPaf5iM&list=PLBcphYdOqWq6zvXgP9-pBqqvMds_l3sXY

Damn cool, love that motor........here's a couple of pics of my fathers 482s from 68. I was told these were pretty much prototypes at the time.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]533763[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]533764[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]533765[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]533766[/ATTACH]

Do I take it that you are stroking 427s to 482s?

Been looking at the pictures you posted for about an hour. Downloaded them, blew them up. Just like the Nova 19 I own, rebuild the whole thing on a wing and a prayer and then find the first picture of it that’s worth a thousand words. Like in the third picture you posted with the wires on the bolts. Couldn’t figure out what was up with them on my motor. Now I think it was a way for them to keep you out of the motor so you wouldn’t discover their secrets. The picture also shows the same fuel pump mine had with the same in house made aluminum fuel line splitter box, two bradded lines to the double pumper. The only thing that’s different and puzzles me is the intake spacers on the heads. Mine didn’t have that. The same Winters intake but no spacers. Maybe they milled is off to much or something? I really like the home depot water crossover. I guess they didn’t use a circulation pump or a thermostat. Looks like there could be a Mercruiser raw water pump feeding it all with the top of a bracket showing but not the rest.
Looks like I will have to make some minor changes to make mine look exact like the picture when it goes in the race boat but man is the ACBS is going to love this when I bring it to the show this time with real (and a clone) period race motors.
Stroker 427 ….
Yup, that’s what it is. 427 tall block, welded up stock forged crank and reground stroked, longer rods, off the shelf pistons. Most of the motor is off the shelf. It was the top shelf but for the most part the marine stuff is mercruiser and the motor is GM except for the stuff Crain did like they reworked the GM heads and Winters/GM intake and it was their cam. Apparently Crain didn’t have heads back then so they just ported and polished GM heads and then resold them. Like I said I have every part number down to the simplest gasket. Back then it was cutting edge and you would have had to be an engineer to put it together. With the internet, a hundred hi-pro parts places and a good machine shop you can now build one in your garage if you have the recipe.

Hm, now there was me thinking they were reworked 454s.......I thought the 427s back then were Ford blocks? I knew that Crain were big back then.........Well, all very interesting I thought you'd like the pics, heres a link for some more of the boat and its recovery if your interested, unfortunately thats all there is of the motors.http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/g...leased-24.html

From my own experience the one obvious advantage was to stop taking one up the tail pipes when you pulled the taps back, major advantage for a motor with a

cam which does not like back pressure at low RPM.

My new 383`s being a case in point, slow down with care, they don't like the exhaust flaps being shut ever for a split second.

Ask Ratman 72 for further details !!.

Kalaazar

Good point, they are pretty close to the water line on a 27 sport though.

Just saw this on my screen saver.......great shot and on topic.........1974 CTC.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]533777[/ATTACH]

Tall decks (10.2 deck height) require intake spacers when using standard height block (9.8" deck height) manifolds as the heads are further apart on a taller block. The block is a 'V.'

I'm not sure if GM/Winters made a high performance dual plane intake manifold for tall decks. This explains why theirs had spacers.

Now yours - have you looked up the part # ? If indeed a tall deck high performance dual plane intake , I would say it is extremely rare.

I'm assuming you did this, but not to leave un rock unturned, did you run you block # to see if it really is a tall deck ?

Man that’s a hell of a story there Rat. The Navy just happened on it looking for a helicopter…..hummmm. lol. I see you all got it back on the water and sold it in 76. You have any idea where it’s at now and is it still with those motors?

Hey Sb, It’s a tall block and the intake must have been made for Mr K because it’s got a GM number that don’t come up in any books, 3963647. A guy has one on eBay from England which got me thinking about where the motors are that were in Rats boat. Like you said they are a bit rare but not impossible to find but the one on eBay also looks to have been milled so you could use a standard distributer the same as mine and it also says it was for marine.

Well here's a thing! I thought I'd ask my Dad whether he had any old photos hidden away that showed the engines in more detail...........he said I was dreaming because "back in those days we took "Snaps" for fun not for record. Most of my early pictures tended to be slides, the IN thing of the time......." Anyhow, I caught up with him this morning and he has a big bag of old photos with him, which I start rummaging through............some photos of other boats which I never knew he had but nothing new for Magnum Tornado, except this press article from back in the day which I thought made great reading and would like to share here. The bit about the displacement of the engines really caught my eye, so perhaps this is why they are subtly different to yours???

You know I have just spent the last 42 years thinking those engines were 482s, when in fact, having had a simple conversation on this website has now lead me to realise that they were in fact 496s. In more recent years my old man has said a couple of times that he thought they were 496s but quite frankly I didn’t believe him because I had always had 482s stuck in my head……..who’s the idiot now!

Yes, I do know where the boat is and unfortunately it is in a right old mess. It no longer has the original deck, or motors, or skin fittings, running gear etc………. As per the article below, the deck was modified by my father in '73 and sadly he totalled one of the original motors in August 1969 when a big end bolt failed at low RPM on the Stbd motor just before the Cowes Torquay race. He then sold both motors off to Mr. Colin Banks who owned a boat called Miss Gurnsey, as per below. He put the good engine in his boat and used the wrecked engine as spares.

My Dad and I found Magnum Tornado a few years ago and I tried desperately hard ( and still try desperately hard) to get him to buy it back but it needs a new deck, new motors and a complete re-rig, so I'm not making much headway with him. I also know where Maltese Magnum Twin currently resides but that too is in a very similar condition and also needs a new deck, etc.

Hey, does anybody out there know anyone who has an original vertical transom 28' Magnum race set up, with a deck we could copy???? That may push him over the edge........LoL!!

[ATTACH=CONFIG]533880[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]533881[/ATTACH]
[ATTACH=CONFIG]533882[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]533883[/ATTACH]
[ATTACH=CONFIG]533884[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]533885[/ATTACH]
[ATTACH=CONFIG]533886[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]533887[/ATTACH]
[ATTACH=CONFIG]533888[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]533889[/ATTACH]

Can’t help you with the Magnum.
But …. I’m still a little puzzled over the intake spacers. If they were just stroked 454’s to 496’s they wouldn’t need them. Unless some major milling or something was done but I would think as thick as they were that’s in insane amount of milling especially for a new motor. Maybe the 496 part was a mistake or a mislead from the factory, they even could still be stroked 427’s and they punched out the cylinders 60 over, that makes a 496. To be honest my 482 is now a 496 because of the need to fix the cylinders during rebuild. One of the reasons they liked the 427 tall deck is the extra thick block. You could punch the cylinders 100 over and have no worries. Some of the races will go well beyond that. Oh well I learned something and opened another mystery all at the same time again.

Bob Patterson based in L.A. developed the tube tuned exhaust system for the offshore boats. At the time the only exhaust available was the old Mercury log manifolds, So the Patterson system was a true tuned to length HEADER system. HP picked up almost 50 hp over the logs. Patterson also did a set of 45 degree headers for Gentry custom boat. The side headers were deafining, they could mesmerize you in a 200 mile plus race and you would loose the RPM perception, it was very weird. Kiekhaefer then came out with a header system out the back as did Stelling and the evolution was on. Bob Patterson was the innovator and a great guy.

Hi Richie----Roger Hanks had the first set of Patterson side pipes----After the '500' Mr. K. flew to LA and returned with a complete set---Ralph and I installed them in the '
'Aeromarine' 1--and a few weeks later won the Hennessy Pt. Pleasant with Doc--

http://i58.tinypic.com/nv9ysz.jpg

Don't forget, a tall deck can use much longer rods.

BTW: I really don't think you can mill a tall deck intake down to regular deck proportions. Companies making tall deck intakes don't just add material to the head side. They basically make an copy that's proportional.

Look up images of an intake for standard deck and it's 'copy' for a tall deck.

I could be wrong about your particular intake but all the ones I've seen don't have the material to be removed.....the cylinder head flange of the intake would be removed with nothing left to seal.

Gene,

Did Bob do any racing himself?

Jeff

---He did-------

http://i57.tinypic.com/uvcpk.jpg

Side Exhaust
 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]534272[/ATTACH] Here you go

Hi Richie----my newest hearing aids cost over $7,000!! That is more than Bob got for a set of side pipes. But the engines you built for me while you were doing time at Oshkosh were probably louder---and a higher frequency----42,000 exhaust pulses per minute!! On each side!!!

That makes sense. Connecting the dots..........

Post #49. http://www.boatmad.com/forum/showthr...t=22333&page=3


By the way Gene, you're a cool dude!!!!!



Jeff

Cool thread there !

Here's a cool pic of the side exhaust's. The individual runner inatke set up even makes it even cooler. LOL.

Click on: http://www.boatmad.com/forum/attachm...3&d=1374829086

The Patterson side pipes were symmetrical. Bob only had to design and build only one header model---they would fit on the left, right, front or rear. Did require tailpipes of different lengths, tho---
http://i57.tinypic.com/34pnpg4.jpg

Gene knows that boat very well, that's Aeromarine III in a later life.

There pretty! That's what an engine room should look like!

Hilborn stacks are badass.

Those are Kinsler-Lucas units. Hiborn were constant flow.

Jeff

Right on, what type of metering did those use? Like a throttle valve or something?

Lucas made the fuel metering unit. It is usually driven from the Cam replacing the distributor. Some had a right angle drive to run the distributor. This puts a little more torsional load on the cam and also puts more load on the timing chain.
Some Aeromarine engines had special front gear drive setups that also drove the metering unit.

Think of the Lucas metering unit as a fuel distributor.
The output at the injector is timed or pulsed as the metering nozzles spin in the housing passing each injection port. The faster the engine spins the more net flow you get. The fuel output is also multiplied by the throttle position with a mechanical linkage from the throttle shaft to the cam linkage on the top of the metering unit. Think of it like a vacuum advance mechanism.
These were the hot ticket back in the day and I believe Lucas had a patent on them.

Richie Powers adapted them for marine use when he worked for Kiekhaefer.

Jeff

Awesome information. Kind of like an early mechanical sequential fuel injection.

Thanks for the input.