Older Cigarette hull vs newer
 

Hello everyone,

Currently located on Lake of the Ozarks and have really become interested in the Cigarette power boats. Found a beautiful 1998 with recently rebuilt motors. Naturally aspirated and carbureted with a lot of horsepower. Priced sub170k. Seems like a LOT of boat for the money and appears to be a great value compared to the newer hulls commanding double the investment and beyond. Question is, what am I giving up going to an older hull? Appreciate any and all advice!
Jerry

I'd be sure and have that boat surveyed. Rot would probably be the main potential issue there. At some point nice older or refurbished boats should look good to people when a new performance boat is a bargain at 1/2 million or can be even a million or more in some cases.

You might want to put this in the Cigarette owners forum probably get more action, how far sub 170 sounds high to me, the biggest difference is the bottom in 2000 they started the twin step, in a same power comparison the stepped bottom will be faster than the straight one. More info would help determine pricing.

One of a kind and the last of a breed.
 

I guess you sold your 36 Concept with triple outboards? If I was in the market I'd buy the Bob Saccenti built 2000 Apache 42 Renegade at Performance Boat Center, LOTO. It was the last Apache Bob built on 188th St., Miami. That makes it very special. It's got an Apache 36 deck which gives it more headroom in its full cabin. It's been a freshwater run boat for what I believe its whole life? Having staggered motors is definitely a plus. This boat was originally for sale 18 months ago for $299,000. The motors have only 10 hours since re-fresh, but the question is when that was? If motors check out, well then I find this to be one of the best values on the market right now, and if cared for it will be a classic collectible that will always be desirable.

https://www.yachtworld.com/yacht/200...he-42-8195313/

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...ba6797e15a.jpg

Appreciate the advice from everyone that commented.

Interesting about the Apache that was brought up. I saw that boat several months ago but did not realize the history behind it and why Apache owners are so loyal to the brand. It is located at the same dealership as the Cigarette that I am interested in so it will give me an opportunity to see it up close.

If that is a 2000 year Apache it could have a composite transom. I thought I recall they did some composite boats around that time, but could be wrong. Apaches are built well, but their owners put them thru some rough stuff. The other good thing about Apaches is most of the glass work can be inspected and in some cases even serviceable without having to tear up the cabin and floor.

Apaches is most of the glass work can be inspected and in some cases even serviceable without having to tear up the cabin and floor.


And why is that? What makes them so easy to work compared to others?

I look at this boat weekly and wonder why it hasn't been sold. If I didn't have so much going on at shop I would be all over this. Not a fan of the white drives, tabs and tips. Easy fix.

I think the reason it hasn’t sold are a few.

Needs to be a mostly cash buyer.

The purchase price is a small amount compared to keeping that power train running for any amount of real run time. Its good for maybe 200-300 hours?

Even though everyone likes to talk about how much of a wave crusher their boat is, most do not like to run in the rough.


It takes a LOT of power to get those to move.

Of course all that said I would love it but not in my income bracket.

Even the most mint Apaches are tough to sell (Spirit of Apache). It is an awesome specimen but alas 24 yrs old, making insurance/financing hard to get and if you do get it it won't be cheap. If it takes a long time to sell now, it will likely take longer next time. The cool factor is there, you won't probably pull into a waterfront bar and see another one............Maybe on a big poker run like Boyne thunder or Key West you might see another one or two.

To me the travesty is when these get gutted for a restoration and never get put back together! Jay13 took a running one apart then crickets, not sure if Razz was ever reassembled, etc.

Because they were originally built for "transport" and speed! :D

My 28 just had lots of access hatches cut into the floor in all the areas that were key to looking at sringers and bulkheads.

Son showed me a face space post that this old girl sold at Performance Boat Center.

i have a very nice 1998 topgun with many upgrades and new trailer i would let it go for 149,000
contact me if intrested

Greg, I know a place you can store it. :D

Apache on my bucket list, just a 47. Gonna need a bigger barn

fits in the toy box, what cha talking about? 😂

Back in the States

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...5d24ee7327.jpg

F2, Sent you a PM

This one can be had for less than $170K - let me know if interested. Not sure how it stacks up to the boat you are looking at, but I can tell you it's got a lot into in and nothing but good parts, good structure, etc. It's a 1990

Word of advice before you get into an offer situation - look up to see if it can be insured (Not mine, ANY of them)

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...2119bec56d.jpg
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...503fa29865.jpg
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https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...7906737012.png

If you are willing to spend $160k look for a newer 38 Twin Step. They are close to 10mph faster with the same power, ride better (definitely flatter), more efficient, and easier to insure if that's one thing you are concerned about. No matter what you buy, you will have to throw money at it. Why start off with a 1998 that's $160k when you can buy a much newer boat for the same price? The Twin Step will ALWAYS be easier to get out of for the same $ when you need to sell. Now, if you are buying a $80-$120k straight bottom, that's a different story. You can't buy a 38 Twin Step for that.

Just asking, but why are these boats so expensive to insure? Is it the power, the name, the age, the value, all of the above? Guy's seem to put a lot of $$ into the upkeep and refurbishment of them. A survey that validated the structure should be enough to get a good policy and peace of mind. I have been kicking around the idea of getting a redone or good condition one, just because, but every time I get to thinking about it, the insurance thing rears it's ugly head. And don't even get me started on home insurance anymore. Geeze. I don't even think about calling those jack legs unless the damage is over 10K!

Kinda a Dick move post IMO....

Why? I guess nobody can have their own opinion around here?

Just curious...
Why you would say this? His post was probably the only post that actually answered the original posters questions.
Not the direction the thread took everyone trying to sell an older Cigarette or Apache.

I may have read it wrong, I took it as shot at Fricks boat.

If you have money for a boat like this,,,,why listen to others opinions???
Get what you like and makes you happy!!!! Buying a performance boat as an “investment “ is a terrible idea. LOL
I wanted an “old school “ classic Flatdeck, so that’s what I bought and will sink 100k plus in redoing it, simply because it’s what I always wanted.
kinda like restoring your high school car?
There is no price on happiness!!!!

I agree with Lucky guy .
Twin step is your better bet .

I don't think any of the posts here are out of line.

For sure get a Twin Step if you can find one within your budget. Have you ridden in different Cigarettes? Stock, bravo boats, TRS, SSM boats, straight hull versus stepped hull (they do ride different I don't care what anyone says - both have advantage / disadvantages). Maybe try to get on as many as you can late this season / next season before you purchase. There are a lot of variables. Also ask yourself what your boating goals are. Reliability?, does everything good?, fast top end? hotrod that only sees a few hours per season?, stock Merc power? hot rod custom power and unique? etc.

A Gladiator would be a sweet rig in that price range.

FWIW - I did a project boat and tried to get it to do everything well. Turns out that's pretty hard to achieve (impossible actually). In the end, I got fed up this season and just wanted to boat - I went out and got another boat with outboards so I could be on the water, our season is too short, and I work a lot of hours. A hot rod boat will be about a 10:1 ratio - 10 hours of maintenance, repairs, caretaking to 1 hour of boating.

I got into my project without having a lot of experience owning and operating an older vintage boat like this. Let's just say I figured out way too late that I had taken on more than I wanted, but ended up seeing it through to the end, and had to do a few things twice I had never considered. Find a friend, talk to people who have these, get some more experience around them. For sure buy what you always wanted, but also make sure it fits your lifestyle. I wish I had a little more guidance back when I took mine on. People around me got excited too, I got passionate about it and dove in head first.

Plus the cost. You might sour on the boat after a few years of paying the high running costs of a higher HP or older boat, factor in that insurance cost too. Do you do your own work, or do you need to pay someone else to do it?

Your quote "an older boat with redone engines that make a lot of power" - being that Vintage, almost all were bravo boats. Is it a bravo boat? How much is "a lot" of horsepower to you? Costly setup in both time and money (repairing hurt drives, time off the water, chasing parts to save a weekend, a trip, frustration, etc)

I've been through a lot of that - it's no fun.

I think in the end a twin step Cig (any model) with mild HP will be least cost of ownership overall - and maximum hours on the water. If you're interested - I can give you more details on my boat, I wasn't trying to turn your post into my "for sale ad", I saw the $$$ figure you put up for a straight bottom and cringed because there are probably only handful of straight bottom / older boats out there worth that much. Must be either a time capsule or a completely redone boat that someone dumped a ton of $$$ into.

Just trying to help.

Post up what you are looking at and the knowledgeable guys around here will try to help you. Ignore the comments that aren't helpful, sometimes people have their own agendas and opinions that may not align with your goals or wants.

We'll try to help you out with constructive feedback or questions to ask during the Due Diligence period. Might want to post this in the Cigarette owners thread/page.

BTW - I also considered that Apache, a lot of hardware for the money. Anyone know what it traded for?

Keep the brand going!